sotal Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I don't do much welding and when the need arises I currently borrow my in laws mig welder which seems to do most jobs very well, can't remember what it is but it's a blue quite heavy trolley with a little disposable gas canister on the back. I'd seen some cheap arc welders at a shop on offer and wondered if they are any good. The cheapest being a SIP Weldmate T140P, which is under £50. Seems to cheap to be worthwhile, so my question is - are they a waste of time? Are they suitable for some jobs that the mig isn't? For that sort of money I wouldn't mind getting one if it's do the job. So far the only welding I've needed to do is fabricating brackets, and in a year or two I'll have to weld the sills on the discovery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 You could, if you wanted, do all your welding with an arc welder. The obvious advantages are: a lack of gas bottle renting / carrying; less fussy about the state of the materials being welded; more portable; cheaper; less bits to go wrong / keep clean etc (unlike mig torch for example); good for outdoors stuff, as the flux covered rod tends to shield better than mig gas in windy conditions. I've got a small clarke one, which is carp. But I really enjoy using it. I'll get a bigger one which could actually be of some practical use. Its a great skill and can teach you a lot about other types of welding - you seem to really concentrate on the weld pool, which is great experience for Mig and Tig. Its a bit fiddly to start, but not as bad as tig. It'll certainly do what you need with some practice, although its not so good for thin panels in general, which may cause you problems. Cheapo units can be ok, since they are pretty simple devices. Arc welding requires post-weld slag removal. If you're good, it'll just peel off in a strip, if not, its just one more thing to clean up... Someone will probably chime in and say put your money towards a Mig. They may have a point. Hope it helps a bit. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige90 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Cheap welders tend to have poor duty cycles and trip out leaving a frustrating wait till it cools down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco tony Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 little welders like this have an OCV (open circuit voltage) of about 40volts. This is the voltage that generates the arc to start your weld. Once the arc is started, this voltage halves so when theyre going theyre fine. Problem is most electrodes require at least 50ocv to get them going. Arc welders are also intended mainly for 6mm and above thus not really suited to car repairs. If you really like the sound of an arc welder, spend more money on an inverter. They run a much smoother DC voltage and have an OCV of 80volts. They can also be used as TIG welders if you spend another £80 on the kit. I'd be inclined to say look out for a second hand mig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I wouldn't waste the money, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiall Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 one thing is between mig and arc youll find your weld speed very slow with arc compared to mig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I use my CEA 160 A Arc for general farm repairs and fabrication and its the dogs danglies. However, i am only really proficient at flat welding and will use the loader to turn something on its side or upside down rather than have to weld vertically or overhead. This is where the real skill in arc welding lies I suspect. My flat welds are, I reckon pretty good, but if I have to weld less than 2mm or vertical or overhead then give me a MIG any day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mortus Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 swapping rods is a bitch of a job, takin off mask, unscrewing the torchy bit, tapping out the stump of rod thats left without buring yourself, insert another rod whilst geting a good tingle because you couldnt be bothered to turn it off..... hence why today i purchased a 300amp mig although ive made many trailers and farm implements with my little 60watt arc welder it doesnt make very strong welds, its underpowered. so then i have my big boy arc welder 250amp oilcooled 3 phase, this is very good, but its as heavy as hell and very hard to move around, even tho its on a trolly, they just are never as good as a MIG or TIG weld. yeah.. save up your pennies and get a MIG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I built my 6x6 entirely with a £50 arc welder. I saved my mig for thin sheet stuff when I was repairing the works vans. There isn't anything wrong with a cheap arc and it can be a very capable bit of kit, bog standard and nothing to go wrong. The one I still have has a cheap rod holder that just releases the rod ends at a push of a button and I have a bag of assorted mild steel rods from 2mm to 5mm. It takes practice to get the arc started and for learners it helps to have a higher current to get the hang of the action of striking an arc. I can weld on very low current now and can weld 1.2mm sheet, albeit slowly, in short steps and waiting for the sheet to cool each time. I wouldn't recommend it though as it is a waste of time, stick to welding thicker stuff. I got around the short duty cycle by cutting a big hole on the back of the welder casing and fitting a fan connected to the power switch. It sucks the heat out really quickly and I have never had it cut out on me. It took me a while to learn to weld vertically at first but then took a 1 year course at college and learnt to weld pressure pipes in situ, ie: all the way around, flat, downwards, upside down, and upwards using arc, mig, tig and gas. I don't have a mig anymore though I do still have the gas regulator and adaptor for the big gas bottles. If you do get an arc welder make sure you keep your rods in a warm dry place, or stick them on a hot radiator a day before use to drive out any dampness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mortus Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 night train, does keeping your rods warm really help? i keep mine in my workshop where its pretty damn cold but its dry would i get better welds with my arc welder if i kept my rods warm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 night train, does keeping your rods warm really help?i keep mine in my workshop where its pretty damn cold but its dry would i get better welds with my arc welder if i kept my rods warm? For basic mild steel welding it isn't so much the rods being warm as the coating being dry. Rods have various types of flux around them for different types of welding, some are good for flat welding only while others are good for vertical or upside down welding. It also varies for the types of steel you want to weld. But they all absorb moisture and their sheilding properties then break down and the misture can cause porosity in the weld. Rods left on a damp garage floor might even start to corrode I think and that will then mess up the weld by putting impurities in the weld. In a cold garage they could suffer from condensation. I have been told that rods that have got wet can be put in the oven to dry them off before storage but I've not tried that. I was always told to keep them dry by keeping them warm, and dry. I know that some specialist pressure tank and pipe welders keep their rods in an oven and only remove a few at a time and I think for that sort of welding heated rods are better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I found on YouTube that might help about the rods. There are others in the series about welding that seem quite useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I keep my rods in the bottom oven of the cooker. Even in a dry workshop the rods will absorb moisture from the environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanny Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 thanks for that link NightTrain, there are some useful videos from the link, interesting too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mortus Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 orgasmic farmer... if your a farmer... why are you on your PC at 9.01am ? i think i will try keeping my rods in a warmer place... altho they are in a very dry place at the moment so theyre ok. and plus... i get my mig next week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Cheeky beggar! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 orgasmic farmer... if your a farmer... why are you on your PC at 9.01am ?i think i will try keeping my rods in a warmer place... altho they are in a very dry place at the moment so theyre ok. and plus... i get my mig next week If he's anything like the farmers I know he'd have already done a days work by 9am. Thanks for all the tips - I'll give the ARC a miss then and stick to borrowing the Mig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHO? Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 its amazing what you can get done between 5.30am and 9.00am!!! theres no other bugger up, its great, kind of!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Do the words single farm payment apply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9unit Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 u get what u pay for paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mortus Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 k9unit, you almost beat me with the most unuseful and most unhelpful reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexi Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 u get what u pay forpaul I would never be without an Arc welder even though I have Mig and Tig . Can be used outside no problem. Very useful with stainless rods....and the welds are good with this method. Mine is a cheap Sip 210 with a fan. No problem in 12yrs of use ........and portable. If I had to limit myself to one welder ..it would be the Arc. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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