skid Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Hi, has anyone had this issue...of diesel in the engine.. If so whats early tell tales sign of this prob and is there any preventitive measures? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 If you mean diesel fuel in the engine oil, then yes you have a problem, most likely a duff injector unit thats not shutting off correctly & weeping fuel into the cylinder, which then finds it's way to the sump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66gaza Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Not too sure how a TD5 lift pump works but on some engines a faulty lift pump if it it mechanical and attached to the block can fill the sump with diesel. Gaza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I'm afraid on a Td5 it often means the head is cracked, as the fuel rails consist of drillings through the head (another great idea right up there with having the wiring on the inside...) The fix is effin expensive as you will imagine - new head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mortus Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 i regularly have diesel in my engine, infact every time i start my land rover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skid Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 i regularly have diesel in my engine, infact every time i start my land rover dont tel me....... you also have diesel in tank as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbj Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I'm afraid on a Td5 it often means the head is cracked, as the fuel rails consist of drillings through the head (another great idea right up there with having the wiring on the inside...)The fix is effin expensive as you will imagine - new head Hi Skid I am afraid that BogMonster is right A danish bloke wrote this on the Danish Land Rover Clubs forum (www.dlrk.dk) For those of you who don't understand Danish a short translations is further down. "Discovery II TD5 ES, 1999, ca 223.000 km Nogle måneder siden opdagede jeg at motorolien indholdt en masse dieselolie. Jeg skrev et indlæg om det dengang og fik en masse respons med mulige løsningsforslag. Dette indslag, for at berette hvordan problemet blev løst: Skift af 'fuelpressure-regulator' er ingen løsning. Hvis denne regulator lækker diesel, er det udvendigt på motoren. Da skift af diverse pakninger omkring pumpedyserne mv. ikke hjalp, bestilte vi et brugt topstykke hos CWS4x4 i England. Udmærket service, dog havde de ikke så meget held i at sende pakken til Fredensborg, når de nu mener Fredensborg ligger et sted i Norge. Via pakkecentraler i Bergen og Göteborg, kom herligheden nogle uger forsinket til Kastrup. Et helt topstykke, inklusive pumpedyserne til omkring Bp 580, inkl. fragt og VAT. Så er der enda 90 dages garanti. Topstykket er fra 2003 og skulle efter sigende være 'nice and low milage'. Dyserne blev skiftet først. Det er en forholdsvis enkel operation. Det kunne være det var dem der var noget galt med. Men desværre; stadig diesel i motorolien efter nogle få hundrede km. Så måtte hele topstykket skiftes. Det blev gjort. Problemet er løst. Hvor kom dieselen så fra? Der er ikke noget at se på det gamle topstykke! Fra nogle fora fra England, har jeg læst en del om røntgenfotografi (?) af topstykker. Måske skal der det til, for at se en evt. revne? Dieselolien pumpes frem (under lavtryk) fra en opvarmningscylinder til en kanal i selve topstykket til pumpedyserne. Utætheden må være der et sted... Nu har jeg så en pose leftovers (alverdens smådele) fra topstykkeskiftet. Også fine og velfungerende dyser og en udmærket dyse-aksel. Gad vide om de er noget værd..." To make a long story short, change of 'fuelpressure-regulator' did not help as this leaks on the outside of the engine. Change of gaskets and so on, no good either. He did buy a 2'nd hand cyl-head and this did the job. They could not se any faults on the head. Maybe the cracks are so small that you need some sort of X-ray of the cyl-head to find the cracks. Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 surely a pressure test would pinpoint any cracks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raumer Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 There is another possibility. If the vehicle has been used for a lot of low speed work (for example airport landrovers) the sumps will fill with fuel, we have had a couple back for this. Solution if this is the case is to change oil (assuming no engine damage done) and make sure you give it a few blasts down the motorway now and then. It's the one landrover engine that really appreciates motorway use. The fuel drillings through the head and wires inside the cam box work very well on the truck engines that have this system. Never quite sure why landrover didn't get it right in this area. Ed Delphi Development Engineer (we made all of the injectors ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adz Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I'm no expert on engines, but even a Tdi runs about 600bar of fuel pressure, a TD5 is closer to 1600bar - or in more understandable terms 8,400 psi (where 1 bar = 14psi) and 22,400 psi. This is way above what yer average pressure check will generate and microscopic cracks which aren't shown up by pressure checks can be a serious headache when you're talking about fuel pressure Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridaT Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 We regularly see TD5 cylinder heads which have a crack in the fuel gallery or a cracked injector socket. A pressure test of the fuel galleries usually shows it up beautifully. FridaT www.turner-engineering.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 The fuel galleries run at a mere 4 bar, the pump pressure. The very high pressures are internal to the injectors. If the o-rings around the injectors fail the 4 bar will go into the cam housing and from there into the sump. So, change the o-rings first. If the problem persists then start worrying about the head being porous or cracked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raumer Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 As Jim says the fuel rail on any EUI (TD5 style) or EUP system runs at up to about 8 bar normally. One of the big advantages of an EUI is that all of the high pressure fuel is in the injector which makes for a very small volume that is easy to compress. No pipes connecting bits together at high pressure. The forces involved in generating this pressure are very high and the head needs to be designed to cope with this. For interest the version of this system that is in production for HGV's now is running at 2500 bar. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MINESAPINT Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I did post a couple of weeks ago on a subject that seems closely related to this thread. I was talking to a Independant Land Rover dealer who advised the next thing I will be look forward to is needing a new cylinder head for my Td5. He advised the problem manifests itself at around 60,000 miles, I have done 57,000 miles. He also advised that he thought there should have been a recall on the affected vehicles and that he thought a modification was made to later engines. I was hoping to establish at what stage the modification was made and whether my vehicle is likely to be affected and whether I need to start saving up! MINESAPINT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skid Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 cheers guys all very helpfull, i'm not sure at this stage if have the problem. i'd heard about it and trying to gather info. i am concerned because previous owner has had it jeremy'd up to i'm told about 200bhp. it goes very nicely but am also wondering would this make this particular problem worse?? because of all extra power you find yourself with heavy right foot and prob that is reason for poor consumption(23 to gallon). was wondering if some going where it should'nt but oil level not rising.. i know some hate td5 but its so much more pleasing than my other 200tdi, although i do have basic idea whats going on with that one!! thanks for everything so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skid Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 We regularly see TD5 cylinder heads which have a crack in the fuel gallery or a cracked injector socket. A pressure test of the fuel galleries usually shows it up beautifully. FridaT www.turner-engineering.co.uk Hi FridaT, as minesapint says in this post that he thinks later engines were modified do you know anything about this and what age or chasis number that would have been from Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Early engines certainly do not automatically go pop at 60k miles as I know of a couple round here with 150k+ and definitely original engines both head and block. As already said, the fuel rail pressure is 4bar/58psi on all Td5s so there is not that much pressure and it is only sealed by O-rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridaT Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Hi FridaT,as minesapint says in this post that he thinks later engines were modified do you know anything about this and what age or chasis number that would have been from Cheers There are indeed two type of TD5 cylinder heads. Early type - 2 internal fuel galleries Later type - 1 internal and 1 external fuel gallery. Later type - about 2001/2 onwards. Both types can suffer from a cracked fuel gallery. FridaT www.turner-engineering.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveA Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 I thought it was about 02 onwards. There was trouble with some cracking in fuel galleries, or even porous heads causing fuel to run into oil galleries & to sump. Fix was to block off one off the galleries (sealed by gasket itself at fuel regulator ?) and add an external fuel pipe, from front of head to an additional port on later fuel regulators. I have changed to a later head with external port with no trouble, not cheap though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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