gearboxes.

[simon red90]

so after mashing up another old suffix LT77 and really looking rather stupid this weekend, the time had come to get out the chequebook.

just so you know i'm running a 200tdi soon to be on propane and i do push it hard. ashcroft shatfts and cv's so they're not too bad, and i've got to do the ring and pinions to take some strain off the transmission soon too, prob go for 4.11/4.75:1.

i was originally thinking about a shortshaft R380 box, but i'm not convinced. some say the older LT85 is a bulletproof box? is this the case?

what would the audience go for?

[Steve 90]

I had a few problems with mine (including jumping out of reverse) which was an early LT77, Now fitted a H suffix (late type LT77) which seems far better.

Info here http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_1.html#pa1. then click on "Technical info"

I know of a few people running these and they all seem to be fine.

[Steve 90]

Should add I looked at the R380 also. Ashcroft had some short ones in stock but they were going to be pricey. Had a long chat with Dave (he knows I drive the truck pretty hard also) and he said the LT77-H was a far better box than the early ones and would be fine. You will only get part of the surcharge back if its an earlier box going back in exchange.

[bill van snorkle]

The LT 85 Santana box is inherently stronger due to greater distance between shafts, ie 85mm vs 77mm for the lt77 and r380's thus having correspondingly larger diameter gears etc. They lived reasonably well behind the brutally torquey 3.9 litre Isuzu 4BD1 deisels in Australian spec 110's. They were a little undernourished regards mainshaft and primary pinion bearings, but after modification to address this deficiency they proved to be a very good gearbox indeed.I also recall machining up a collar to fit over the rear most mainshaft circlip to prevent it from getting pushed off during severe engine braking, thereby losing 5th gear. I doubt that even the latest spec R380 would live behind a 4bd1 Isuzu for very long.

Bill.

[Steve 90]

The LT 85 Santana box is inherently stronger due to greater distance between shafts, ie 85mm vs 77mm for the lt77 and r380's thus having correspondingly larger diameter gears etc. They lived reasonably well behind the brutally torquey 3.9 litre Isuzu 4BD1 deisels in Australian spec 110's. They were a little undernourished regards mainshaft and primary pinion bearings, but after modification to address this deficiency they proved to be a very good gearbox indeed.I doubt that even the latest spec R380 would live behind a 4bd1 Isuzu for very long.

Bill.

Whats the gear change like, I know the LT77 aint great (although my new one with Ashcroft mod's aint bad) but I had heard it was an improvement over the 85

[TomG]

LT85 is more tractorish than the LT77, larger gaps between the gears (longer throw on the stick), gearchange can't be hurried especially when cold (lubrication is 20w50 or similar engine oil rather than ATF)

There are two variants of the LT85: 20C (Solid case) and 22C (Split case). I've heard the 20C is meant to be strongest - can anyone confirm?

[daveturnbull]

Old 4 speed range rover boxes (also fitted to eary 110 v8's) are pretty bomb proof - hence why all the comp safari crowd used to use them before the recent move to auto boxes.

[D9OSV]

Having seen you drive Simon i would seriously look at auto's............... You like to work your car hard and auto will take a lot of strain of the drive line when pushed hard.

Also you will be able to find one out a disco fairly easliy.

If you go this route, do fit Two flex plates for extra strength.

Otherwise i would go R380 ( 'Cos reverse is so much nicer than an LT)and buy a bag of "Mechanical sympathy" to use with it

Speak soon

Jim

[simon red90]

...buy a bag of "Mechanical sympathy" to use with it ...

do you guys sell this mechanical sympathy? never heard of this before. sounds like it could work!

i couldnt go auto. i just dont like the idea of it, with a manual i can load up the turbo, side step the clutch and floor it and off we go. not do that stuff with an auto.

got no problems with having tractor-esque gear change, lets face it, challenge 90's are hardly something of luxury and its road use is near enough zero anyway.

so would the LT85 box fit my bellhousing, length of mainshaft etc? 4speed/5speed? (my very narrow minded opinion is that 4 has one less gear, one less to break!)

i'm probably gonna have to give mr ashcroft a call tomorrow and have a chat.

[Steve 90]

I dont think id like a gear change any worse. The LT77 is bad enough when your going for a quick gear change trying to get a run up to a long hill climb or a boggy patch.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Strongest LR Boxes are (out of the crate)

LT95 (with integral T Box)

LT85 (takes LT230)

3 Speed Auto (4 speed MUCH weaker) (Takes LT230)

4 speed auto can be built much much stronger - for a £, talk to Dave at Ashcroft if you wallet will allow)

Nige

[Night Train]

To add an oddball into the mix - how might the ZF S5/24/3 gearbox from the old Ford A series truck (working up to 6300kg GVW) compare with strong Land Rover boxes?

It was the one I used in my 6x6. It was 5 speed with a direct top and low (6.4:1) crawler first gear and I linked it to my own 3 speed transfer box.

[Jon White]

But is there a bellhousing for an Lt85 to fit anything other than a V8?

As far as I was aware the LT85 was only ever fitted to the V8.

Similarly is there one from an LT95 that will fit?

I'd say LT95's aren't really an option thesedays anyway as there are no reputable companys that rebuild them anymore (I'm pretty certain ashcrofts dont), and pretty well all the 2nd hand ones about are knackered!

Jon

[RPR]

A number of rally teams in the Gulf ran LT85's successfully behind various levels of John Eales built V8s. As I recall, the LT85 was a Santana designed box and lived behind their proprietary 6 cyl (?) diesel. As Bill said, if it managed behind the Zuzu 3.9, it will take a hopped up 200 tdi. In any event, I would have thought given its Santana origins, there would have been a bellhousing to suit the 200 tdi. As per the above advice, it has more of a Series gearbox feel to it, so will take some gettiing used to.

[streaky]

I've had LT85's and R380's...and broken them both!

Bowler was running a refined and tuned version of the R380 in the Raid vehicles and Mark put one in the 110 Saluki racer before it was sold. I also have one in my Discovery...it's a lovely box and more of a pleasure to drive than the very agricultural LT85. I had a totally new LT85 in my 4.6 130...it was superb and never complained. I managed to bust a few transfer boxes though.

Rebuilt boxes are a waste of money if strength is what you are after. Most of the shafts and gears have already been shock loaded and are therefore ready to break without givng any prior notice. The Saluki's box had all the major components criogenically treated by QT services...and still there were breakages.

A totally new box with new internal components is the only solution. I heard that Britpart purchased most of the Santana ex-stock gearbox internals a few years ago. If it's new parts you want then drop them a line.

If breaking a box is your major concern then switch to Auto. The other components in the drive train will thank you for it also. I was getting through boxes in my SIII lightweight before swapping over to a Borg Warner 3 speed auto...problem solved.

[FridgeFreezer]

If it's between LT77 and R380, R380 is stronger. I had the conversation with Dave Ashcroft when I ordered mine, they build both to the latest/highest spec and the R380 is stronger. Second hand I wouldn't bother as various suffixes of both boxes had their problems.

The old LT95 boxes are very strong but were only ever put behind V8's so you may struggle. Also, as mentioned, spares could be an issue.

Autos are kinder to drivetrain and the 3-speed is very strong, but I'm with you on this one, even if they're flavour of the month at the moment I still don't want one.