jacks906 Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 the main reason for not over complicating things if something breaks like the "tecalemit change over valve" how hard is it to get one in the middle of nowhere and can the system be changed/(bodged) to get you somewhere to get it fixed also fail safe take a jerry can with you (empty or full) and you can modify the fuel system to take the fuel from the jerry can instead of tank we did this when a mate popped his tank laning dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn668 Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 When I spoke to Trekoverland at Billing last year, they already made plastic 2nd tanks for 110's, and they said they were working on them for 90's too. Should have been ready at the end of last year. Haven't checked to see if they're ready or not yet. It was to be a plastic tank which fitted between the wheelarches inside the back of a 90, behind the sloped bit of the bulklhead. Don't know if they planned any pumps or pipework to go with it. I recall it was going to be MUCH cheaper than any of the other options. I was interested for my Td5 90, as i wasn't even sure a Safarequip one would fit, because of the roll cage verticals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 OK, so I've got my TD5 tank, ordered the mounting cradle, and am about to butcher the filler neck and add a Y piece Still got a couple of questions - be grateful for a leg up before I start hacking at stuff... ref the triangular fillet section on the rear crossmember - I've seen a couple of references to removing this, just wondering why it needs to be done - haven't got my cradle yet so cant offer it up - is it to clear this or is there some other reason??? I placed the tank in position without the cradle and it seemed to fit ok, so just wondering if its absolutely essential. I want a very simple installation - I just want to pump fuel from the back to the front tank, either via a connection at the filler neck or any other easy access point. Speed isn't essential and want to keep it basic. Jimmy mentioned the TD5 in-tank pump/sender isn't a pump - will it not be suitable at all? If not can I use a range rover or disco in-tank pump? they look similar sized from memory but are they the right diameter and depth? Any useful titbits gratefully received, especially around the fuel pump stuff, I'm no pumpmeister and solenoids make my brain itch.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Eightpot Where did you get the Y piece from ? Rgds Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Ivan - I'm making my own, plan A was to get another filler neck and splice the two together, though I've got a section of exhaust tubing in the shed which looks about the right diameter so if it measures up correctly I'll weld that onto my existing filler. I don't know of anywhere that sells them as a single item though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 OK, so I've got my TD5 tank, ordered the mounting cradle, and am about to butcher the filler neck and add a Y piece Still got a couple of questions - be grateful for a leg up before I start hacking at stuff... ref the triangular fillet section on the rear crossmember - I've seen a couple of references to removing this, just wondering why it needs to be done - haven't got my cradle yet so cant offer it up - is it to clear this or is there some other reason??? I placed the tank in position without the cradle and it seemed to fit ok, so just wondering if its absolutely essential. I want a very simple installation - I just want to pump fuel from the back to the front tank, either via a connection at the filler neck or any other easy access point. Speed isn't essential and want to keep it basic. Jimmy mentioned the TD5 in-tank pump/sender isn't a pump - will it not be suitable at all? If not can I use a range rover or disco in-tank pump? they look similar sized from memory but are they the right diameter and depth? Any useful titbits gratefully received, especially around the fuel pump stuff, I'm no pumpmeister and solenoids make my brain itch.... Eightpot, Although I've not done mine yet and so not got my hands dirty, I'll try to assist with you questions. The TD5 rear crossmember is flat on it's forward face. If you leave the triangular sectioned part in place on your pre TD5 crossmember you will not be able to move the tank far enough back to A) sit in the cradle properly and B ) clear the diff pan on the rear axle. Have a measure up and see how it works out on yours. Fuel pumping - the standard UK TD5 tank will have a pump in it because TD5s don't have a fuel lift pump like Tdis do. What Jimmy bought was not a pump (although Land Rover call it so) but a combined level sender and pick up unit which replaces the fuel pump on ROW build Defenders that were essentially TD5 spec but with a 300 Tdi engine (thus no external pump needed). Jimmy did this so that the Tdi lift pump on the engine could then draw from either tank rather than use a fuel transfer system. So, if you want to transfer fuel from one tank to the other then use the standard pump that came with the tank. I'm doing what Jimmy did and will be using each tank separately using a simple electrically operated tank switchover valve that only needs a 12v supply and will switch fuel gauge inputs as well so I can use one gauge for both tanks, no brain itchiness caused That way if ever one tank is damaged, I can always use the other. The fuel transfer route doesn't give me that flexibility and would mean that I have to make one off parts that would not be easy to replace if I was away from home. I hope that answers some of your questions Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Thanks Mo, very helpfull ta. I recon the diff clears the tank with the fillet in place, didn't seem close enough to foul it when I did the trial fit - might be easier to modify the cradle but wont be able to tell till it arrives, and it stops pishing down with rain. Like the idea of the changeover valve, seems simpler and I guess its the kind of thing you get from veg oil conversion companies etc? I'd need a way to connect a fuel line though, so probably stuck with using the pump. I don't have any of the associated pipework for the pump, and the fittings look like special push fit jobs - rather than traditional threaded fittings - if anyone can help with any advice on how to offer a fuel line up to them or where I can get appropriate fittings that would be a big help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolHands Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 How about using a 3-way valve as shown on this page. An electric solenoid flicks between either tank to provide output to the third pipe I guess? http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/products.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_neutron Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 How about using a 3-way valve as shown on this page. An electric solenoid flicks between either tank to provide output to the third pipe I guess?http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/products.html They look ok ..... maybe. The reason people use the tecalemit valves is that they have got a very proven track record. Probably decades now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 If you are using 2 tanks then you would need 2 of the above valves, wouldn't you ? Starts to get a bit pricey then I'm using a 6 port motorised valve from here which is a bit more reasonable and switches fuel gauge outputs too. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_neutron Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 If you are using 2 tanks then you would need 2 of the above valves, wouldn't you ? Starts to get a bit pricey then I'm using a 6 port motorised valve from here which is a bit more reasonable and switches fuel gauge outputs too.Mo mmm. I remember struggling to justify the extra cost, but my thoughts were.. The pollak valve had reports of reliability issues. I think it was something to do with a glass internal part. I've got 2 fuel gauges and like to have them as well. It is just a nice to have, but a good one and one i use. You don't need anything special to make your fuel gauge change over when you flick the switch either as its a very simple wiring thing to do. Another thought which i didn't do, but thought of ... Them tecalemit type valves were fitted to jaguars i think. May be worth doing a bit of research on this and a visit to the scrap yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 mmm. I remember struggling to justify the extra cost, but my thoughts were..The pollak valve had reports of reliability issues. I think it was something to do with a glass internal part. I've got 2 fuel gauges and like to have them as well. It is just a nice to have, but a good one and one i use. You don't need anything special to make your fuel gauge change over when you flick the switch either as its a very simple wiring thing to do. Another thought which i didn't do, but thought of ... Them tecalemit type valves were fitted to jaguars i think. May be worth doing a bit of research on this and a visit to the scrap yard. Thanks for that Jimmy. I've searched regarding Pollack reliability but can only find problems on a 5 year old US forum which had more to do with solenoid operated valves rather than motorised valves. Can you point me at a couple of sources please Jimmy so that I can have a look ? I'm going to stay with one gauge and yes, it's a very simple job to wire to switch gauge readouts Cheers Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_neutron Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Thanks for that Jimmy.I've searched regarding Pollack reliability but can only find problems on a 5 year old US forum which had more to do with solenoid operated valves rather than motorised valves. Can you point me at a couple of sources please Jimmy so that I can have a look ? I'm going to stay with one gauge and yes, it's a very simple job to wire to switch gauge readouts Cheers Mo http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/...ad.php?tid=2431 http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f37/fake-pol...sion-46543.html http://www.biofuelsforum.com/svo_users/490...ve_failure.html There a more, but you get the idea. People suspect copies, but are they ??? May be temperature issue which you wont struggle with, but is it?? In the end it came down to, ones people suspect as copies fail with no fuel to the engine, and the others fail leaving fuel from one tank only, but both tend to fail. Tecalemit valves when doing the same search talk about nothing to do with failure at all. How do you know for absolute certain that the part you buy is the genuine articale anyway ? Like i said, i took the easy option and just stayed away. Oh ... and get on with the job ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Thanks for that Jimmy, I would have it in by now if it wasn't for the prep I'm doing on the electrics of the TD5 bulkhead going in at the same time ! Cheers Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruit_uk Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Keep it really simple fit two 20l jerry cans to the rear of the vehicle, you have to make a plate to carry yje lights and numberplate but the fuel transfer system is foolproof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardAllen Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Has anyone found a source for a filler pipe Y piece, or got a good (easy) way to make one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 nope - been looking for a while. I've still got to fabricate and weld up the brackets for the tank cradle, and fathom how I'm going to connect the TD5 fuel pump up first - after that I was planning to do one of two things - get another filler neck and graft the lower halves together - got put off that pretty quickly when my local place told me the price. Second is to weld a short section of 2.5" exhaust pipe I've got in the shed to the existing filler pipe. Option 3 is get a fuel filler from a boat chandlers, but I don't really want to go that way if poss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Not sure about the UK, but there are special dual tank valve that you can buy at any automotive store here. They are 6 port (2 fuel in, 1 fuel out, 2 return in, 1 return out) and they do not cost very much. Or if you are cheap, you go to the breakers and take one of a truck. I think most are the Pollak brand http://pollak.thomasnet.com/viewitems/fuel...?&forward=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Yup, Red, you can buy them in the UK from here. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 get another filler neck and graft the lower halves together - got put off that pretty quickly when my local place told me the price.Second is to weld a short section of 2.5" exhaust pipe I've got in the shed to the existing filler pipe. Would it really be that difficult? /thinking cap on...clear the area!/ i'm imagining a piece of pipe, say 2.5" diameter, look at the "end" of the pipe, mark the 12:00 and 6:00 positions (ie, top and bottom), lay the pipe flat onto a band saw at a particular angle and "slice" off a chunk of the pipe from an imaginary line (betwen the 12 and 6 position) to a point a couple of inches down the pipe. do this again on another piece,being cut at the ecast same angle as the first, and offer the two cut pieces together... in theory, you should have a perfect round end where the 12 & 6 marks line up. weld these together, then weld on another piece of pipe on the newly formed round end.... err... um, job done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 ^^^^^^^^ Exactly the vision I will be marching into my state of the art technical facility with (leaky old garden shed) Only the 'bandsaw' will be a junior hacksaw with three teeth left on it, balancing a bit of old pipe on an upturned bucket, holding it down with my left knee. When I've managed to get two vaguely corresponding shapes hacked, I will spend the rest of the afternoon trying to unstick the shroud on my mig welder from a bit of old pipe and having a toss up on wether to seal all the blow holes with mastic or do it properly with chemical metal. still - nothing ventured.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardAllen Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Being giving some thought to the posts here, fopr my 300TDi 90. My approach is a Y piece in the filler, a TD5 tank under the rear and a 300TDi in-tank transfer pump from auxiliary tank to main tank. I am not going down the cleverer route of motorised change over valves yet. I put Jim's Y piece instructions them onto a 3D CAD and got the following: The idea is a short pipe from the neck to the join of the Y so that it is easy, on filling, to direct the pump nozzle into one tank or the other. However, the pipe should be long enough so that when the first tank gets full, fuel flows over the Y join into the second tank before backing up into the pump nozzle. The auxiliary tank in-tank pump outlet connects to the swaged end of the U pipe. Thus fuel transfer goes into the main tank along the same route as when filling up. If, while transferring fuel from auxiliary to main, the main tank fills up, fuel just flows over the Y join, back into the auxiliary. This way you cannot overfill the main tank while transferring. I have not built this yet so any comments, especially improvement suggestions welcome. (In putting the CAD model together, I found that there are some mathematical niceties about cutting the Y pieces correctly so that you end up at the join with a pipe the right size. PM me if interested, but I won't be able to respond for a day or two.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyfarmerboy Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 i think the best way to add extra fuel tanks is get a plastic bottle or container that is sealed, put it on the roof rack and take a pipe down directly to the engine. This is very good in the desert because you do not have to worry about the fuel pump going wrong as gravity will feed it. but for look i would have one at the back and one under the passenger seat. the old 90's were fitted with then and can be found on ebay. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacks906 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 why not put a normal filler like of a Td5 at the back for the back tank an a normal one at the front, only reason is that the fuel will have to travel along way from were the filer neck is on a 300tdi to the back tank and is it possible for it to be gravity fed from the front neck?? you may end up with still fuel in the filler line likethe idea were the fuel is transferd into the to front tank tho dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I had a play in the garage yesterday with some 2.5" exhaust pipe.... even with my rubbush welding, it wasn't too bad: Cut the pipe at an angle (in this case it was 45 degrees as thats all my chop saw goes up to Offer up and weld: Off with its' head! (or, slice the top off to accomodate the "top" piece of pipe) The finished article: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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