Category B Driving Licence questions

[Guest otchie1]

There is also the small but growing issue of ANPR equipped traffic patrols.

These little boxes of magic will read the full number plate of your E reg 110, look up the owner, cross reference it to the DVLA, MoT & insurance databases and fire off a 'nick him' alarm to the nice officers in the car.

After asking a few preliminaries about who you are and where you're going Mr Plod will ask to see your licence, knowing full well that you don't not got no D1 on it. He will then inform you of your mistake, point out that you also therefore have no insurance and then seize your car leaving you stranded where ever you happen to be.

No licence & no insurance will probably nett you at least 6 points which may well destroy your newbie licence, forcing a retest.

Oh, and then there's the fine and to rub a bit more salt in there is also the cost of seizing and recovering your vehicle.

Probably best to whip the benches out this afternoon really.

[western]

remove one of both rear side facing bench seats, then you can use the 110 with out any worries.

[sean f]

One important part mentioned by several people in passing is what is listed on the V5 document. This seems to change for every vehicle and model with no great consistence as is showing up in some of the answers.

If the V5 lists a number of seats greater than allowed this will have to be changed which may involve an inspection by VOSA, otherwise an ANPR check may well see you pulled. If there is no number listed then just removing the extra seat is probable all that is required.

Also covered it is the maximum ALLOWABLE number of passengers that counts not the number actually present, this also applies to weight. Those of us that took our test many years ago will be allowed to drive up to 7.5 tonnes and tow a trailer on the standard test, in later years this was restricted to 3.5 tonnes and a trailer over a certain weight (can't remember what) also requires a seperate test. This regularly catches people out who borrow large vans etc which may be basically empty but have a MAM listed as over 3.5 tonnes, since they have been driven by other people on standard licenses they assume this still holds true, as you have discovered with the seats this isn't always the case.

Several friends took part in the Plymouth - Dakar a few years ago in an HGV truck tractor unit, they got this re-registered as a 7.5 tonne vehicle after cutting the trailer attachment off (they welded it back on underneath for weigh distribution). This needed to be done by the book due to the number of different countries they travelled through.

[Anderzander]

May I ask a noobie question on this subject please!

If there is no requirement to have seat belts on sideways facing seats - what's the requirement to have proper seats?.

Barring the insurance criteria and what is stated on the V5 of course, what would the situation be with just sitting on the body's box section with a nice clean rubber mat

[western]

what would the situation be with just sitting on the body's box section with a nice clean rubber mat

a big Not allowed, not even in the back of a ordinary van.

if belts are fitted they must be worn, if no belts fitted then as they aren't there can't be worn.

[ozzie1989]

I was under the impression even if belts were fitted to side facing seats they don't have to be worn as it's up to the person sitting in the seat... I tell my passengers not to wear the belts unless they want a ruptured spline in the event of an accident

[Matt Neale]

My 110 CSW left the factory with 11 seats in total (it had a cubby box fitted from new - no front centre seat).

As has already been stated, there were 2 designs of bench seat in the rear of 110 station wagons - either 2 or 3 person seats. Mine came with the latter. (Station wagons could be specified as 12, 11, 10 or 9 seaters.)

I too had the problem with insurance companies not having a clue what they were dealing with, and not understanding that the vehicle as standard had 11 seats. I removed the two rear bench seats - bringing the total down to 5 - and put that in writing to my insurance company at their suggestion. No problem with insurance since. I should point out that there were never any rear most seatbelts fitted, and the V5 does not state the number of seats. The only place the actual number of seats will be recorded is at Land Rover traceability - it'll be on the build spec. If it's not on the V5, DVLA don't have the data - simple as that.

Also - like Ralph's - the plated weight of my 110 is 2950 kg as it originally had self levelling suspension.

The licence issue isn't relevant in my case as I passed my test in 1989 - so I have grandfather rights anyway.

Thing is - my vehicle, like so many others, was "constructed or adapted" with 11 seats - so even though I only have 5 fitted now, that was still it's build spec....

Matt

[paradigm shift]

Apologies for resurrecting an ancient thread, but it's first result on Google and after I'd wondered about my 12 seater 110 I came across it, before coming across the gov.uk page which has a rather crucial exemption so I thought I'd update the thread with recent information in case anyone else does the same.

See https://www.gov.uk/driving-a-minibus as any vehicle able to carry over 8 passengers is a "minibus".

Specifically the section regarding usage being "not for hire or reward". Essentially, if it is private, social use and you are over 21, having held your licence for 2 years you are able to drive a vehicle with up to 16 passenger seats.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicles-you-can-drive is a surprisingly decent little tool given that it's on a government website!

[Smego]

you can drive it but not with more than 8 people in it .

as for weight the 110 will be 3050kg .

it is a class 7 MOT but this only means it cant be tested in a normal garage that does only cars up to 3000kg , instead it has to be tested at a garage that does small commercial vehicles like ford transit or merc sprinter vans .

i think class D1 is for mini buses .

you are basically saying there are 6 seats in rear plus the 5 seats up in the front .

well you could pull the 6 seats out of the back and then it becomes a 5 seater , or you could fold the middle seats down and then its an 8 seater .

with my landy 90 the insurance company didnt seem to have a category for a 7 seater landrover , its usually no more than 5 seats they seemed to think .

if you convert the 110 so it has only 8 seats then i think you wont have a problem , but if you leave 11 seats that are useable then technically youll be driving it ilegally .

its much like driving a coach on a car licence , you must remove the seats so that it can only carry 8 persons max .

ian

it's also not a category 7 either as Landrovers still fit into cat 4 the MOT rule still has yet to change.

[Oakmaster]

Back 15 yrs ago with my 110 12 seat CSW (which the NFU would not consider) I was told by my insurance Co to physically remove one of the rear bench seats to make it a 9 seater - then they were happy, - Then with the 300 Tdi 110 12 seat CSW that followed (after my wife did £30Ks worth of damage to a house - how many women do you know who have written-off 2 defenders? To be fair neither incident was her fault)

With the 300 Tdi 110 12 seat that followed (great truck – 135,000 miles still in the family – no major traumas) The insurers (may have been Churchill back then) simply asked that I write to them and state I would never carry more than 8 passengers.

8 or 9 it used to vary between insurance companies – its enough for 2 families usually, (unlike the Puma)

There are two key issues:

Whatever you agree with the insurance company – Put it in Writing, and Make Sure They write back and confirm it – Keep copies of all correspondence – and attach it to your insurance documents, make copies of all of this and keep them in 2 separate safe places.

Don’t Ever carry more people than the number you have agreed with your insurance company. - its easy when you are young and daft – we once got 9 (that’s NINE) people in (and on the roof) of a mini coming back from a party – the journey included driving over a pedestrian suspension bridge, then buoyed-up by this we went to a motorway service station for a fry-up (by the service entrance) and drove over the pedestrian bridge there! - as I say – Young and daft!

If you had an accident with more people than you are insured for – your insurance would be invalid – and the civil claims in the event of death or serious injuries could run into millions – for which you would be personally liable.

Sorry to be a bit negative – On the bright side owning a Land-Rover is a lifestyle choice which will expose you to the whole gamut of emotional experiences for deep joy to total depression – I have or have had, 17 land-Rovers

[tacr2man]

Land rover have varied the seating in the series 3 109 and 110 over the years to suit changes in regs and different markets. The 12 seats original was to enable not paying purchase tax IIRC , The 88 sw was about the same price as the 109 sw as the 88 with 7 seats had to pay the tax . The 109/110 were supplied with 10 seats ie 3 -3- and two 2 seat benches in back , they were also supplied with 11= 2 3 6 and 9= 2 3 4 They are currently 7 =2 3 4 or 5 due to legislation . From the V5 point of view as its a dual purpose vehicle there is no mention of seats on the document . If your sw only has 9 seats thats it , as the only record will be on the build spec card with landrover . DVLA or VOSA will have no record . I have run my 110CSW as 12. 11, 8, 5 ,2 and currently 3. never been queried by ins co when informed.

Ive had or have had 22 landrovers , the only model that I havent owned is a 88 lightweight

The definative :

If the minibus is not for ‘hire or reward’

You may be able to drive a minibus with up to 16 passenger seats using your current car driving licence as long as it’s not for ‘hire or reward’ - ie there’s no payment from or on behalf of the passengers.

You held a driving licence before 1 January 1997

You can drive a minibus in the UK and on temporary visits abroad.

When your car licence is next renewed at the age of 70, you’ll need to re-apply for your entitlement and meet higher medical standards.

You’ll need to order and complete a D2 application form and complete a D4 medical examination report. There’s also D4 guidance notes.

You obtained your driving licence after 1 January 1997

You can drive a minibus within the UK as long as the following conditions apply:

• you’re 21 or older
• the minibus is used for social purposes by a non-commercial body
• you’ve had your driving licence for at least 2 years
• you’re driving on a voluntary basis and the minibus is used for social purposes by a non-commercial body
• the maximum weight of the minibus is not more than 3.5 tonnes (or 4.25 tonnes including specialist equipment for disabled passengers, eg a wheelchair ramp)
• you’re not towing a trailer

[UdderlyOffroad]

• you’re not towing a trailer

Watch out for this last one, once you've loaded the landie with 10 of your mates, you're going to need somewhere to stow their gear. And frankly a Land Rover that can't tow a trailer is like a broken pencil...pointless.

I did, for non-LR reasons enquire about the costs of obtaining a D1+E licence. £1600 was the cheapest quote I got. I uttered the Bolton war-cry and put the phone down ('ow much?!').