Suspension

[Pacey]

Hi everyone,

First of all let me congratulate you all on a wonderful forum, you've certainly kept it clean.

Well on to my question.

Please excuse the ignorance on some things, we don't have many people over here with really modified 90's so not many people to ask on the subject.

I've had my 2001 90 for quite awhile now and done much of road, I've certainly learn what a capable vehicle it is!. However i now feel id like to tackle bigger and better things, certainly getting of this rock to visit bigger off road centers is on the cards.

I've read a much as possible on the subject and certainly learnt a lot from posts already on here but still require some help.

Although this is my only means of transport i have van for work so it really is just a night and weekend driver, i live in Jersey so as you may know motorway driving doesn't happen very often and i'm happy to sacrifice on road performance for off (to a degree).

I've looked a kits/options from the likes of llama 4x4 and Gywn lewis but i think the more i look the more i'm getting confused as to what goes were and what i need with each option.

How does the 11" kit work, ie does it give 11"s of lift or lower but then offers 11"s of travel, it seems people highly rate it performance tho. If i went for something like this what else would i require to keep things running sweet.

I've got a budget of about £900 give or take an extra couple hundred. So i'm open to suggestions as to which route would be best.

Thanks in advance.

[Godlykepower]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

If you could be a little clearer as to what you want out of the vehicle, we can be very specific.

I use my Defender as my main means of transport, but my reason for getting it, was to drive from London to Cape Town.

I do occasionally go to pay 'n play days, but nothing too extreme. Like you, just discovering what these vehicles are capable of.

For my suspension set-up.....I have kept standard LR springs coupled with De Carbon gas dampers. Last week I fitted a set of Superpro polyurethane bushes.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with standard springs, but the dampers give a more responsive ride....not too hard & not soft enough to bounce you all over the road.

I think you will find that lots of people here will tell you about Old Man Emu, and I am one of them. Arguably one of the best suspension set-ups on the market. I did contemplate getting springs & dampers from OME myself, but even though the price was not an issue, it was a cost I could not justify. It was a bit too much for my needs.

If you are more biased towards getting into serious off-roading, then one of the guys will be along to give their recommendations soon. Gwyn Lewis is a name that comes up time & again, and by all accounts is superb. Gwyn Lewis is far more than I will ever need so cannot give an opinion.

If you are leaning more towards keeping your vehicle as a daily driver, whilst exploring what you and the vehicle are both capable of off-road more often, then you may consider tweaking the standard set-up to your needs only slightly, saving you lots of money from your £900 budget. (More money to spend elsewhere!! One way or another, you'll end up spending it on a Land Rover!!)

11 inch shocks is not the amount of lift gained, but shock travel.

Normal lifts are usually 2 inches, but you can do 1 inch or 5 inches too. Probably all sorts of inches in-between. Once again, not something I really need to consider, as its usually the serious off-roaders who require extra ground clearance, that lift.

Hope this helps

Martin

[bishbosh]

The 11" kit means the shocks have 11" of travel, allowing the axles to articulate further than standard.

Either Gwyn's or David's (Llama) kits will be good. The metal work in David's kit is made by Gwyn.

Their have been some comments on Rough country shocks being under damped on 90's but I have no expeirence of that. I had Rough Country shocks on the fron of my RR and they were fine.

More up market gear would be OME springs and shocks. I don't think I have ever heard a bad word about them and I have heard plenty of good, but they are expensive.

I think the best thing you could do is give Gwyn or David a call. Both of them will give you sound advice without the hard sell you might get from other retailers. You will also get good advice from Devon 4x4.

Hope ths helps.

[SteveG]

What is your 90 like now? Any modifications already? What tyres

Assuming it's standard this is what I would do..

First fit some good tyres - 33" Muds like BFG MT's will be good. Don't fit something like Simex etc unless you plan to compete as you then need to start to spend hundreds of pounds beefing up your transmission. This will put some height under your diff's and aid traction

Then Good front and rear recovery points

Next protection - diff guards, fuel tank guards, side bars, and HD drag link and track rods.

Next a compressor. A T-Max V-twin jobbie for 80 pounds will do and tyre defaltors like Staun or ARB. Airing down your tyres to 18-20psi will give you more traction than any suspension upgrades.

At last suspension. Unless you plan to fit 35"+ tyres you don't need a lift of greater than 1". 2" lift or higher on a TD5 will give front prop vibrations so you'll need to budget 180+ for a custom DC prop shaft too. To get your 90 to a very good standard of suspension flex the Gwyn Lewis kit is well priced and an excellent set up.

A Gwyn Lewis shock mount and spring retainer kit will cost about £160

Four N73 OME shock from Gwyn would cost about £280

Extended brake lines will cost about £35

Cranked Rear radius arms would cost from £160 for a set from Gwyn up to £300 for a set of X-arms which will give you the maximum amount of travel on the rear.

You could simply add some RR rubber isolators to your existing springs top and bottom which would give you a 1' lift. This would cost about £20.

Personally I prefer X-Eng's X-Springs on the rear compared to Gwyn's rear spring hooks. The hooks slightly limit rear travel where as the X-springs will maximise it.

Instead of suspension upgrades you could instead fit front and rear ARB diff locks. You'll probably need to fit upgraded shafts and CV's from Ashcroft too, so it will work out expensive, but you'll get better traction in most cases than you would with the suspenion set up. As you know most people do both to get the best set up, but you are talking about spending around £4000 for off the shelf products to do this.

Hope this helps

Steve

[Pacey]

Hi guys, thanks a lot for the input.

SteveG my set up at the moment is fairly standard, i'm running Kumho KL71's in 265/75 R16. Protection is being taken care of in another budget, i've already got front diff/steering sorted. I must admit i had over looked the idea of a decent compressor and recovery points.

As much as i like a jacked vehicle, i'm a realist and would prefer a setup thats works to the best of its potential than just looking good if there is an advantage to be had by going up to 2's say i would like to look at it as an option, even call it future proofing.

It certianly seems the route to be looking at then is a good mixture of the parts that each company offers then, i did like the idea of the X-eng springs.

If i went with the N73 ome what length do i look at or is the spring length that dictates the lift and the shock just acts as the travel and sag.

I certainly can't afford to look at diff lockers atm, but who knows what the future holds.

again thanks to all.

[SteveG]

The N73 are just for if you choose to go with the Gwyn Lewis set up. For most other set ups a +2" shock will be fine. Devon 4x4 do a range of OME shocks and offer good advice.

Cheers

Steve

[The Badger]

Hello

I had the same thinking, it is confusing what lift to give your 90 to get the best of both worlds.

I chose GW's kit because of the OME shoks and springs + you get wider prop shafts.

This kit has given me more up and downward movement and it has improved the ride allot on road and off, unlike the majority of other lifts as they don't.

I went over to GW's place and had it fitted as his kit has been made for the TD5, not a Puma, hence there will be differences... And there was... Glad I went over...

Both props are different, all the break hoses are different, I.e the front are the same as disco's, the rear are half disco / half defender. Really good bloke and a small operation so you get one on one advice.

[Pacey]

Ok, i think i'm understanding all this now thanks for your patients

I should of answered Godlykepower question, the bias of use is 60/40 towards off road and fun as apposed to on road.

The X-eng flex suspension system is quite interesting, would this system work well on its own with standard suspension or would i still have to look at shocks, springs, props etc.

The full challenge kit by Gywn is also looking very appealing as fairly all in one answer.

Thanks

[bishbosh]

is the spring length that dictates the lift and the shock just acts as the travel and sag.

Yep, spring length and rate (lb/in) determines the ride height of the vehicle. The shock is to damp the spring and will limit your droop travel. In fact, if badly set up it will also limit your bump travel but not for long as it will self distruct! For this reason it is a good idea to get one of Gwyn's kits as he has worked out all the geometry for you.

[Pacey]

Thought i'd just keep using this thread, keep the place tidy.

I've been away and thought what i want out of my suspension. I've decided that as i'm gonna be using the 90 for overlanding standard ride hide or anything that wont cause problems further down the line is probably the best route to go. Based on my assumption there isn't a parts dept in the middle of Mongolia.

From what i've read i cant go to far wrong with OME, but obviously weight decides what springs to get. The 90 is used for my business so normallys carries and an extra 50/70kg of load in the back and for over land a rough idea would be about 1700kg based on two people with extra water and fuel.

So the question is:

What rated spring should i be looking at.

Are OME a good choice.

How can i make a standard height suspension work to the best of its ability. IE is it worth relocation cones etc.

Thanks.

[Eightpot]

Wouldn't worry about relocation cones etc unless you're competing, I've never had a spring pop out yet - if you're worried about that happening invest a couple of quid in some jubilee clips and attach the springs to the seats.

- HD/miltary rear springs (standard LR) will give you the extra springing you need for carrying your work kit, but for overlanding with rooftent/water/extra fuel etc I found them to be way too soft and bouncing off the bumpstops frequently.

The correct rate springs to cope with that weight probably would be too hard for day to day and compromise off-road unladen, so I'll probably look at some air helpers (air bags that inflate inflate inside the rear coils) - bit like a bra for a car

other option could be keep existing springs for day to day and swap the backs for some good HD ones if and when you go overlanding - only a half hour job to change the springs at most.

Remember 90 springs are smaller dia than 110 so you can't use those without mods, which is a shame.

[Ivan]

I would suggest calling Frogs Island. I think the guys name is Eddie. They would probably advise some OME progressive springs and OME Nitrocharger dampers (shocks). I had these fitted to my Discovery and they were very good. The Discovery was usua;yy very lightly loaded except when we did trips to Morroco and Libya etc. They coped very well unloaded and loaded up for a long trip.

HTH

Ivan

[Pacey]

The thought of two sets off rears had crossed my mind. Existing springs are coming to there end. I've unloaded all weight from my trip at the weekend and the back is still sagging. They be fecked!

Don't really like the sound of airbags etc, like i said i'm looking for the KISS approach on this one. If someone could tell me a 1inch lift or 40mm as OME put it, is 100% not going to create any problems then for the sake of extra clearance id get it. But my main objective is to end up with a very bomb proof reliable suspension system to go away with, the thought of trying to learn the Mongolian or Mandarin for double cardon propshaft or two inch lift is quite a scary one. lol

Ivan unfortunately i've had a disagreement with Frogs over postage in the past and wont use them now. But thats just a miner issue. Might try devon4x4.

[Eightpot]

Theres a useful spring rate table I picked up elsewhere on the forum - http://members.shaw.ca/jbarge/springinfo.html

Seems to be difficult to get a high rate spring of a standardish length for a 90 OME 762 might be the best compromise at just over an inch lift.

The air helpers look like pretty simple things really - just strong 'balloons' that fit inside the spring and you pump up with a tyre inflator - bit of info on Matt Savages site http://www.mattsavage.com/acatalog/Air_Lift_Helpers.html - be good to hear if anyones used them.

[honitonhobbit]

For overland advice your first stop should always be OEC International - the big difference with them is they really do have the experience!

If you are thinking overland then you need stuff that doesn't go wrong - the two best readily available kits are OME (wash my mouth out for my words) and TJM. The latter is the best.

The best springs full stop are Eibach, closely followed by Dobinsons with King on the tail

If you buy matched kits you will have no worries with accidental dislocation but if you mix and match - say OME and Pro-comp you will need to retain or relocate. A +2" Pro-comp has far more travel than say a +2" OME shock.

Pro comp springs are good but not beefy enough for heavy loads

Britpart yellows are excellent and like TJM are progressive so give a better overall ride over moderate rough stuff

Shocks with remote resevoirs are better for heavy duty applications as they cool thier oil better - OME make some superb LR fitment remote units for a fair price

Bilstiens and Gabriels are both excellent day to day shocks - especially for road and track work.

Change your bushes - only one sensible option; SuperPro 60 K three year warrantee

As I say, ring Anton or Paul at OEC listen to thier advice, then ring up a few others - you will end up back at OEC!