Northern Winch Challenge Series

[RobotMan]

I took part in the Cheviot Autumn Challenge, it was my first ever challenge. Amazingly our team came second in the modified class and my team mate had never done a challenge either oh and he had a standard class motor. Did I mention I was in a leaf sprung Series II

So definitely there is interest in the North East. 12 teams took part some local some not so local.

[marsie]

definately a good idea Alan,i am sure there are some cracking sites around this area that never get used.As you say,the travelling expense usually is the most expensive part of the event(cost us over £200 to get to and from the TFC and we are on lpg ).Even as far afield as drumclog or morebattle??(around 3.5hours from here,maybe bit less from manchester?)

Paul

[JST]

There is no advantage if everyone is able to walk the sections prior to the event if they want to, none will be hidden, in fact it will be the opposite.

in my opinion an organiser competing has a distinct advantage over the other competitors, not on punch locations but on how they will attempt the punches as thats a process you go through when you setup.

i have only ever entered one of my own comps and we did it as a trg run rather than competing. i had set the punches out. We completed all the punches less 1 within 4.5hrs. The guys that won the event took 7 hrs and had 5 punches less than us.

Knowing how to tackle a punch before you get to it, not running around unnecessarily, and avoiding possible site choke points as you can predict which punches will take longer than others and work that to your advantage all mean the setter upper has an advantage on any they have set up.

Just my thoughts.

[alan kemp]

in my opinion an organiser competing has a distinct advantage over the other competitors, not on punch locations but on how they will attempt the punches as thats a process you go through when you setup.

i have only ever entered one of my own comps and we did it as a trg run rather than competing. i had set the punches out. We completed all the punches less 1 within 4.5hrs. The guys that won the event took 7 hrs and had 5 punches less than us.

Knowing how to tackle a punch before you get to it, not running around unnecessarily, and avoiding possible site choke points as you can predict which punches will take longer than others and work that to your advantage all mean the setter upper has an advantage on any they have set up.

Just my thoughts.

I appreciate your views on this and it may well be the case. My thoughts were that everyone is free to walk the course before the event starts. I personally dont want to be an organisor, I want to compete so am happy to organise an event so I can do more local events. If as you say it is an advantage then I could exclude myself from winning or something like that. Or maybe anyone can set a section out in each comp to a set standard.

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Maybe something along the lines of the comp-safari boys on the AWDC when the organisers of an event get an automatic 2nd place even without competing (I think it works that way but don't quote me!). That way there is a great incentive for others to get out and have a go setting out and since all events are done by different people each format is a bit different.

[MrsBob]

Alan if you are looking for Marshals I'm quite sure my club could provide a fair few for you.

[alan kemp]

Alan if you are looking for Marshals I'm quite sure my club could provide a fair few for you.

Thanks Mrs Bob, where are you based? I think we should do something like JST does with a free barby for the marshalls. One suggestion has been 1 marshall per team (pair of cars) as in the TFC. This would require at least 15 marshalls, is that doable??

[rob90]

I would be Interested in taking part, but god knows how I would team up with

[bobtail4x4]

Thanks Mrs Bob, where are you based? I think we should do something like JST does with a free barby for the marshalls. One suggestion has been 1 marshall per team (pair of cars) as in the TFC. This would require at least 15 marshalls, is that doable??

Mrs Bob is my "better?" half we are based in Yorkshire, we discussed at the local landrover club meeting about marshalling, we usually marshall with the NCGL at the howling wolf thingies.

you will probably know us both by sight if not by name,

[dave g]

I would be Interested in taking part, but god knows how I would team up with

i wouldnt worry about that to much because there will be others in the same boat as you possiblie me if my team mate desides to sell at the end of the year

[Matt BADLRC]

I'd be interested, at least in principle. We run an annual club level challenge event and with the MSA in the process of creating a new challenge permit I think it will become easier to run under the MSA banner in the future, I think the new permit will appear next year sometime but not certain about that.

The first question has to be about the style of the event, in some ways a series of events should be run under similar rules and in a similar format. OTOH having different formats may level the playing field a bit. If, for example, you have some events that feature navigation as opposed to the more simple "throw your motor at the terrain and stick between the bunting" style events.

I'm sure there would be a lot of interest as long as the dates are right, avoiding clashes with other challenges and club events is always a problem, especially when multiple clubs are involved and land availability is limited.

No need to wait till next year for a MSA Challenge permit I have got one sat on the desk here and had another one in August for the Wormhough Challenge

Matt

Comp Sec

BADLRC

www.badlrc.co.uk

[Matt BADLRC]

This will open up some good terain going up through lakes into the borders, maybe a little more than 3 hours towing but should be good for a two day event,

Getting a msa club onboard is the answer to a lot of the insurance issuses, talk to mat at badlrc, he seams keen on the chalenge events especialy after the succses of the last one,

Sponsers would be good to help with cost and prizes,

i'me interested to see where this one goes,

Carl.

This sounds good to me I am sure BADLRC could help with this but as Barney said in a previous post we would need to know a bit more to discuss it a a committee meeting keep us posted and we will do what we can

Matt

Comp Sec

BADLRC

www.badlrc.co.uk

[Matt BADLRC]

I have your number, October it is. Anyone interested in such a meeting, initially anyone interested in organising a meet with a site in mind.

Alan & Barney keep me posted on this meeting in October I can set up a genie telephone conferance room if required to help us sort this before be put it to the club.

Matt

BADLRC

[Matt BADLRC]

I have your number, October it is. Anyone interested in such a meeting, initially anyone interested in organising a meet with a site in mind.

Alan & Barney keep me posted on this meeting in October I can set up a genie telephone conferance room if required to help us sort this before we put it to the club.

Matt

BADLRC

[Dave W]

No need to wait till next year for a MSA Challenge permit I have got one sat on the desk here and had another one in August for the Wormhough Challenge

Matt

Comp Sec

BADLRC

www.badlrc.co.uk

Yep, got one here myself for our event next month. There's a NEW challenge permit that's on it's way through the mill at the MSA at the moment that is aimed specifically at winch challenges rather than trying to combine 3 permit types into a single one. Should make life a lot easier in sticking to the spirit of the regs as well as the letter

Should be available next year although it might get delayed until 2010 - depends on what needs to happen to it to get it into the blue book. I was told that, as it's not a rule change as such, it should go in next year but who knows !

Hope to get over for the pre-Christmas challenge btw, will have to see what my finances are like and what state my motor is in when I get back from Ireland.

[MrHT]

Having seen the ground at our last comp yes I would have had an advantage having set out, but because of the way we ran it I don't think it would have made that much difference as the ground changed for every truck. the top team were fast and even in an equivelent truck I would have really struggled to beat them.

So my view is as long as it's just basic punches there should be no trouble with the setting out guy/gal competing. Lets be honest how many people actualy compete for the prizes?

I consider the challenge is to set out and compete and for all the other competitors to prove that they can do it better cleaner and safer. That to me is a prize worth having. It makes me want to set out more divious routes and sections.

[simon red90]

a very good idea alan.

an event run by competitors. you know how you want it.

just a thought but,

why not make it so each team, one or two cars, sets out a punch. say run about the site saturday and set up. 10am till 4. then a bit of a social nite and serious drinking time. sunday is comp time. that way, everyone knows where the sections are and no individual team can be said to have an advantage over another.

we all want solid sections, so lets make them.

a nice weekend away, some competition, and not too much hassle to organise, as the entrants are doing it?

[MrHT]

Not thought about doing it that way but that could work. it'd be like trials for challenge motors.

[Matt BADLRC]

Yep, got one here myself for our event next month. There's a NEW challenge permit that's on it's way through the mill at the MSA at the moment that is aimed specifically at winch challenges rather than trying to combine 3 permit types into a single one. Should make life a lot easier in sticking to the spirit of the regs as well as the letter

Should be available next year although it might get delayed until 2010 - depends on what needs to happen to it to get it into the blue book. I was told that, as it's not a rule change as such, it should go in next year but who knows !

Hope to get over for the pre-Christmas challenge btw, will have to see what my finances are like and what state my motor is in when I get back from Ireland.

I think its already done you can apply for a challenge permit now it has a cost £6.65 per vehicle and you don't have to use the old orienteering permit as in previous years. I will double check with the office but my understanding is that it was new for this year?

[MrHT]

Simon having had chance to think about your idea I've got a plan and site for a 2 day event based on your idea.

If the northern series goes ahead this will be part of it. (can't see why it won't just needs a little planning)

[najw]

I think its already done you can apply for a challenge permit now it has a cost £6.65 per vehicle and you don't have to use the old orienteering permit as in previous years. I will double check with the office but my understanding is that it was new for this year?

The changes that have been mentioned will not be implemented until 2010. The reason is that the proposed new regulations need to be ratified by the General Motorsport Council before they can be incorporated into the Blue Book and the 2009 Blue Book is already going to press.

In the meantime the MSA have included a Challenge Category to the permit application process to make it simpler as different clubs were applying for different combinations of permits.

[alan kemp]

a very good idea alan.

an event run by competitors. you know how you want it.

just a thought but,

why not make it so each team, one or two cars, sets out a punch. say run about the site saturday and set up. 10am till 4. then a bit of a social nite and serious drinking time. sunday is comp time. that way, everyone knows where the sections are and no individual team can be said to have an advantage over another.

we all want solid sections, so lets make them.

a nice weekend away, some competition, and not too much hassle to organise, as the entrants are doing it?

Excellent idea, if each team sets one out, everyone gets to compete, should be just as much fun setting one out on the Saturday then doing the lot on Sunday, maybe a couple of specials on Saturday pm set out by non competitors.

[MrsBob]

Excellent idea, if each team sets one out, everyone gets to compete, should be just as much fun setting one out on the Saturday then doing the lot on Sunday, maybe a couple of specials on Saturday pm set out by non competitors.

That's what you've got your marshalls for.

[simon red90]

so there we have it. an organised event!? let me know when it will start! wouldnt mind comming up for a play. and if not i'll help out.

si

[MrHT]

Alan my self and a few others are getting together for a meeting on saturday to discuss the northern series. anybody else wishing to come have a pint and talk about next years challenges is welcome. the meeting will be at a pub in new mills (sk22) please let us know if you'd like to come.