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Rear relocation cones.......


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Ok my fornt suspension runs the shocks out side of the springs. Would it then be a better option to run rear relocation cones on the front?.

It's it better to have the front and rear springs fixed at the top...to the chassis and low down to the axles?

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Ok my fornt suspension runs the shocks out side of the springs. Would it then be a better option to run rear relocation cones on the front?.

It's it better to have the front and rear springs fixed at the top...to the chassis and low down to the axles?

Hello? :blink:

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most cones i have seen have been on the chassis end. with the spring fixed to the axle. IIRC Gwyn Lewis, or possibly Llama 4x4 sell a spring fixing plate to hold the front springs to the axle, similar to the rear ones, but with a bend to go round the bottom of the shocker

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If you want to fabricate them yourself, adding them to the axle is easier, clamp the top of the spring to the chassis and build a 3 sided "pyramid" on the axle seat out of flat bar. They don't want to be too tall as you don't want the wrong edge of the spring to catch.

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i built my own using the pyramid idea Dave mentions - and they are fixed to the spring cup on the axle.

IMHO they work better than the top cones, as they are much much quieter in operation. Plus as the axle falls away the spring stays vertical to the vehicle body and the cone on the axle comes up to meet the bottom of the spring in the right place and not off to one side. This negates the need to have a hook or loop to catch the last coil to prevent it coming free if you have mega flex.

post-2947-1235734998_thumb.jpg

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I have both front and rear cones

The rears are axle mounted and I have much much longer and softer springs, these can dislocate quite a lot

and others have mentioned I found axle located meant better relaoctaions than chassis mounted when I tried them :

On the fronts I have them Chassis Mounted, I have not got anywhere near the level of dislocation on the front,

even tho the front does move quite a lot, this is partly due to the issue in getting the F front axle to move much

in the 1st place :(, and also I have much stronger stiffer springs, I also had the issue around the shock inside the tower, which

you don't, but I think either would be fine, I have top due to shockers, but they work well ish :

post-22-1235735567_thumb.jpgpost-22-1235735817_thumb.jpg

If you can then I would go bottom on both ends as its seems better when I tried it, albiet rear only, but the more dislocation the better

they seem to relocate IMHO

HTH

Nige

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I have both front and rear cones

The rears are axle mounted and I have much much longer and softer springs, these can dislocate quite a lot

and others have mentioned I found axle located meant better relaoctaions than chassis mounted when I tried them :

On the fronts I have them Chassis Mounted, I have not got anywhere near the level of dislocation on the front,

even tho the front does move quite a lot, this is partly due to the issue in getting the F front axle to move much

in the 1st place :( , and also I have much stronger stiffer springs, I also had the issue around the shock inside the tower, which

you don't, but I think either would be fine, I have top due to shockers, but they work well ish :

post-22-1235735567_thumb.jpgpost-22-1235735817_thumb.jpg

If you can then I would go bottom on both ends as its seems better when I tried it, albiet rear only, but the more dislocation the better

they seem to relocate IMHO

HTH

Nige

Thanks all.

Mine will be quite flexi so i think bottom locators all round. I'll knock some up and see how we fair.

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I made my own bottom locators on the axle spring seats using two pieces of 16mm x 5mm steel flat bar, bent into U shapes with one welded over the top of the other to form a cross shape. Enough steel to do all four corners cost me £10 and it took me about 10mins to make each one. Sorry for the lack of pics!

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^^^^

Yep, I'm with PB on this one

Whilst there are things you can buy where making them seems plainly daft £38 plus another 6.50 P&P is a bit :o

These are about as simple a fab project as you can get. Make up a nice shape in cardboard being one of the 4 "Prongs"

per unit, then cut from 5/6mm steel x8 of them and clamp together and grind / linish to shape

Cut a couple of rings, and weld the lot up x2

Thats assuming you have the welding / grinding kit stuff to do it, but really its not a tricky jobbie ?

Nige

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I have made a few sets of these now, bottom works much better than top due to the smaller radius of the arc as the spring and cone meet.

Around 4-5" high is what i aim for.

I do them in the pipe bender with a home made former- bit of gas pipe with a notched end to stop the bar falling out then set the rollers close together.

These ones are made from rebar as thats what i had lying around but i have also used round bar before.

14012009230.jpg

(thats a lift block on the bottom incase you cant taste the eggs)

14012009232Small.jpg

Starting to dislocate-i have the same stlye on my 90 and at full travel the bottom of the spring is above the top of the tyre.

14012009231Small.jpg

Top. this is some angle and some chunky flat bar under the seat, space the bolts as wide as possible to minimze the rosk of the flat bending.

A nice little fab project :rolleyes:

Will.

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i use axle mounted dislocation cones at the back and gwyn lewis spring retainers and cones at the front.

after speaking to gwyn i made the rear locators point slightly backward instead of streight up, this is because the axle moves forward whilst articulating, when in deep mud the spring can be pushed backward when it is uncompressed causing it to miss the dislocation cone. having them pointed slightly backwards stops this.

The front spring retainers allow for partial disloation at the axle end and full dislocation at the top using the gwyn lewis mounts, this happend by allowing the spring to pivot and removes a small amout of bind from the front suspension.

spring retainer

Tim.

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A couple of design considerations regarding axle location "cones" after running a few different designs over the years...

A hook is only necessary if you make the cone too tall

A lop sided pyramid is as good as a symetrical one - the spring only needs to be persuaded back in towards the diff and aligned front and rear. The latest design I use is asymetrical because it seems to reduce the amount of undergrowth I get trapped.

The relocators don't need to be anything near as tall as chassis ones, 2-3 inches tall is more than enough.

Having the relocators too tall can allow the spring to locate to the wrong side of the locator, you can get around this with a hook but this is an unnecessary addition trying to compensate for a design fault. Having them relocate badly due to them being too tall can result in damaged calipers/brakes/wheels/tyres.

The purple ones above are way too tall and if you get enough flex to get the spring off them they won't relocate, Nick's look about right height wise but I guess they're copied from the latest versions we're running :)

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Sorry to dissapoint you dave but they will and do relocate, similer cones have been working fine on my 90 for about 2years now.

I didn't really mean they won't work at all, simply pointing out that at a reduced height they would work just as well and reduce the risk of bad location. If you make them tall enough, of course, the spring will never leave them anyway so there is no risk. If you have enough articulation for the spring to completely clear the cones then the slightest movement at the bottom of the spring as it comes back down again can result in it missing the cone and the cone then "guiding" the spring into the caliper/wheel/tyre.

The shorter they are the less chance there is of that happening simply because the axle and the bottom of the spring are squarer to each other when they meet so are already closer to being aligned. The taller the cone the more acute the angle as the bottom of the spring meets the cone.

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Nick's look about right height wise but I guess they're copied from the latest versions we're running :)

yup = didnt realise you used them as well, i stole the idea from matthews truck.

I think mine are about 2" high overall. Only thing matthew said was to make sure the edges of the bar meet flush with the edges on the spring cups to aid relocation and make them noise free.

Took about 5 minutes per side to do.

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