dr pepper Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Hi guys, I'm new to landys but not new to cars and engines. My mrs had a landy for 13 years a while back and now we are looking a series landy to play with. I want to aquire an old vehicle to do up, and maybe an engine swap. Right then, engines and boxes, later series 3's as far as I can tell have the lT44/fairey overdrive/bmc b series diesel, I have a pugrot xud9 1.9 diesel motor in the garage, previous experience tells me that the xud 9 is the same block as the rover T series petrol engine, I'm trying to find out how to mate the pugrot engine to the landy, the 1.9d is from a rover 218d and has a rover pg1 box, anyone know if the pg1 box has the same bellousing bolt pattern as the lt44/77 or the r380 used in the disco?, The ldv pilot van uses the pugrot 1.9 with a r380 2wd box, so a bellhousing from one of these would fit the disco 4wd 380 box, I'd rather not go and buy one f these if the rovers pg1 bellhousing will fit (ok I'd have to arrange mounts and prop shafts, but thats no problem). And yep I know the pugrot motor is not a good performer in the landy, but I'm not looking for a racer, just a runabout. Oh yeah I'm new to the forum, Hi guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4444244 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Hi Welcome to the forum, would it not be quicker easier and better to put a 200/300 from a dead disco in? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr pepper Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 Yep probably would yes, We have however 2 cars and a trike which have the pugrot engine, and a spare hanging around. And I'm looking at a '71 series 3 without either motor or box, so I'd like to put the pug in. Thinking of the xud with a lt77/r380 and lt230on the back from a dead disco using the 218's bellhousing, or get a ldv bellhousing which uses the r380, and getting ashcrofts kit that converts the lt230 transfer box into selectable 2wd/4wd to relieve the front axle/shafts. The pug is capable of 90hp, this is a lot more than the bl 2.25, and its a good engine. I have noticed though box's for the disco seem to fetch prices that can only be laughed at, I can get a driveable disco cheaper, so might end up the 200di route if I end up buying a knacked disco. Ta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Though the Peugeot engine may have more power than the LR engines, it probably won't have the torque, and the vehicle will be dreadfully slow and unable to accelerate or climb hills. The overdrive was always an option, not fitted as standard, so most SIIIs won't have one, regardless of age. The Tdi bolts to the SII/SIII transmission with minimal alteration, so is the most viable option. All you'd need to do is fit a SII HD or SIII clutch plate as appropriate, use the old engine mount brackets on the new engine, and modify the flywheel housing simply by fitting studs to the blind holes and using socket head screws through the four lower bolt positions (replacing the four bolts that atttached the LT77 bell housing), and drilling four holes in the SII/SIII bell housing to accomodate the heads of the 4 socket screws so that they act like dowels. Electrically, it's dead simple - use the SIII temperature sender to be compatible with the gauge and use the Discovery's glow plug relay and wiring harness. For cooling, you can use the original rad and a separate oil cooler, or the Discover combined unit. If you fit it without the turbo, you can ditch the intercooler and just use the existing rad with the oil cooler unions on the filter housing blanked off (remove the oil stat first!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr pepper Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Thanks for the info, I have just about researched all the work required for the 200di conversion. I am however very suprised to hear what you say about the pugrot engine, the ldv pilot van drives perfectly acceptable with the same engine, I drove one full of machine parts and it was fine. Only one thing that I need to know now then, if I covert a petrol series to a diesel using the original LT petrol box with the 200di, what do I do about the gear ratios, there is obviously a big difference between petrol and diesel revs, is the difference made up in the transfer box or the front/rear diff's, theres hardly any point in buying a petrol vehicle if I'd need to replace or rebuild both diffs. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest otchie1 Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Thanks for the info, I have just about researched all the work required for the 200di conversion.I am however very suprised to hear what you say about the pugrot engine, the ldv pilot van drives perfectly acceptable with the same engine, I drove one full of machine parts and it was fine. Only one thing that I need to know now then, if I covert a petrol series to a diesel using the original LT petrol box with the 200di, what do I do about the gear ratios, there is obviously a big difference between petrol and diesel revs, is the difference made up in the transfer box or the front/rear diff's, theres hardly any point in buying a petrol vehicle if I'd need to replace or rebuild both diffs. Thanks guys. Petrol & diesel shared the same gearbox and I'm pretty sure shared the same overall gearing as well. Diesels just went slower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Also the 2.25 petrol didnt actaully rev that high anyway, 4500-5k rpm was its whack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 If you want to go peugeot then do it - LR engines are not the pinnacle of engineering nor are they the be all & end all. The Pug lump will not bolt to any normal Land Rover gearbox (I'm ignoring the Freelander which uses the PG1 box as nothing there will transfer to a "big" landy) but you might want to read up on conversion kits as I'm sure there has been one to drop the pug lump in at some point. If not, you can always make your own. However, the others are right - if you've got a Series with no engine or transmission then the easiest thing is to buy a dead Disco or RR and just drop the whole lot in. You gain a far more modern gearbox than the Series, with an extra gear (so no overdrive required) and a transfer box where you can choose ratios. The only thing you have to consider is the length if it's going in an 88" as you may run out of propshaft I would pick up on some of your logic - just because the bellhousing from an LDV R380 may bolt to a LR R380 it doesn't mean the input shaft will be the correct length, they vary by application from a few inches to about a foot long. For maximum hilarity, put a V8 in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdong2 Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 think steve parker land rovers ( www.steveparkers.co.uk 01706 854222 ) did something with pug engines. graham _____________________________ 1962 2a swb 200 tdi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88inchthing Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Just one point worth adding, if you intend to off road the vehicle then you will have a big problem with the peugeot cambelt. Landy cambelts have a metal cover with a gasket, and when the wading plug is in are watertight. The peugot cambet and rollers/tensioner will get damaged by the grit and mud leading to cambelt failure. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Wonder what the deal is there then - the same engines seem to live quite happily off-road in Auverlands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 i know someone with this conversion in a series shortie, and it goes well enough. Not a vast improvement over a good series lump but definetly cheaper than ending up with the same power by taking the turbo off a 200tdi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 definetly cheaper than ending up with the same power by taking the turbo off a 200tdi. But why the greasy poop would you take the turbo off? May as well buy a V8 and pull four of the spark plugs out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondjeremy Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I had a Series 11a with a Prima engine and Range Rover diffs - and it certainly didn't suffer from lack of power or an inability to climb hills in top or anything. I think I got it up to about 85 without trying (speedo calibration was a problem) but it would certainly keep up with traffic and was very happy on motorways. The RR diffs did show the wide ratios of the gearbox and the thing wasn't happy at 30 in 4th. Solo it would always move off without effort in 1st and generally went rather well. I mention this as this engine was not as powerful as the Peugeot 1.9 Turbodiesel engine - 85 BHP as opposed to 90 or 92 depending on the source of figures - and 115 lb torque as opposed to 142. The Peugeot commonly used for conversions is the older bigger one - 2.3 - 2.5 (Indenor?) which was used by Ford in Granada taxis and other vehicles. In reality it probably produces less power than the 1.9TD. The problem with the XUD will probably be its mountings as the thing is generally hung by the mount going over the cambelt and by a mount on top of the gearbox - and I'm not sure that there's much to bolt something to to attach it in a Land Rover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdong2 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 is that the same engine that was in the trans cat ( pug engine and land rover gearbox ) a distant family friend had one always rated it over the series but he had never owned a series i saw one once at tonge near leeds thought it was carp. graham ________________________ 1962 2a swb 200 tdi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I don't know much about the Pug engine or its applications but might there be a variation in its tuning depending on its source and original application? Engines are sometimes detuned for commercial applications and the torque curve is different. Commercial applications may require a peak torque lower in the rev range resulting in lower power but a more tractable engine. In car applications the peak torque is higher up in the rev range with a correspondingly hight peak power. The peak torque and power being close together in the reve range results in a 'peaky' engine that requires closer ratio gearing and will have much less power and torque at low revs where it would be needed to shift a heavier vehicle off road. Land Rover engines of old have peak torque quite low down in its rev range relative to its peak power. Didn't give it much go but it would keep going albeit slowly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondjeremy Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 The Peugeot XUD 1.9 comes in 3 states of tune - 1.9D - about 71 BHP and torque to match - slightly more than a 2286 Land Rover engine, 1.9TD - with intercooler - 90 - 92 BHP and about 142 lb ft torque (about the same as the 2.5 TD Land Rover engine) and a few without the intercooler which would loose about 8 BHP. They have good low down torque. The Prima would be more economical as its a direct injection engine. Later electronic injection Peugeot diesels will use less fuel and some are quieter at low revs as they inject in pulses to reduce diesel knock. You also get variable turbos, electronic wastegate control and all the wonderful things that science should have done to engines 30 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88inchthing Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Wonder what the deal is there then - the same engines seem to live quite happily off-road in Auverlands I remember the Auverland, my ex boss bought a brand new one in 93. It was worse than rubbish, and he had hell and all trouble getting rid of it. Quite a few 4x4's have non watertight cambelts, that doesn't make it a good idea nor does it stop the belt coming off when it fills with mud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 My 88, is Disco 200TDi WITH turbo, but no intercooler, 4speed original Series box, fairey overdrive on standard transfer box, now with a rangie 10 spline diff. Goes like the proverbial. Bodes well for my 109, having the same but using the LT77 box and an ashcroft LR77 kit. Im rated at 111bhp, dunno what the torque is, and she never baulks at anything. I've experience of 2286D, 2.5D, 2.5P, 2.5TD and 200TDi in both varients, and i wouldnt consider anything else after my experiences with my 88!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 But why the greasy poop would you take the turbo off? May as well buy a V8 and pull four of the spark plugs out I don't get it either I had a turbo pressure pipe fall off my 90 once, effectively it ran no boost, and was terrible. One thinks people do it because they can't make the standard series engine run right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr pepper Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 Well guys the xud is staying in the garage, I was told a load of carp elsewhere though, they said it wouldnt even move off, total carp as you say it has more guts than the original landy engine. The freight rover van has the xud in and it mounted longitudanally so these mounts might fit. All circumstantial now though, I have a 300 tdi engine from a disco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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