What else?

[Rich_P]

I'm getting bored with my 88 - in fact I'm fed up of the harshness of it all and being deafened. I want something else.

So, I've changed the chassis and converted it to diesel (very healthy petrol engine stored in garage). It's had all sorts of general maintenance work done on it, seals and bearings etc. I'm guessing it could go around the 2k mark as it is, maybe some more if I did some tidying up.

What cars do people reckon could be run instead of the late diesel 2A 88, working on the similar/same cost basis? I don't want some little horrible cars like the Metro being suggested here, as there's no chance of me ever using one of those or similar.

Oh and to complicate matters, I'm a student so moneys is tight.

If it helps, I like Range Rovers and Discoveries for their part car and part "Land Rover" thing (88 was useful during winter for getting things about here in Pennines). But insurance companies don't want to know at my age. I suppose the 88 is good being insured for £500 or so, so that too has to be competed with.

Thoughts?

[Retroanaconda]

I'd be looking at a 200Tdi 90. The coils and the newer engine, power steering, disc brakes etc. should make for a slightly more refined drive, but it will still be a Land Rover. Can be made more 'user friendly' through more mods, extra soundproofing, central locking, etc.

I'm a student too, 21 years of age, and I have to admit my normal drive is a Focus. Having said that, I am so bored of driving it now after a month of the Defender being off the road that I literally cannot wait until tomorrow when I am going to re-tax it. It's nice to be able to go back to the Focus though when it's cold or wet or I have no fuel left in the Defender and can't afford to buy any more

My point being, if you can then have both a small practical car (I amazed what Land Rover parts I can fit in my Focus) and a Land Rover for when that gets boring.

If you can't have both, then have the Land Rover. Because that's always better than no Land Rover

[Rich_P]

Thanks for the reply. It's only one I can run, if anything. Insurance is a killer on even a Punto 1.2 (about twice what I'm paying on the 88).

Thing is with 90s (and 110s), I noticed that most of them are really suffering with their chassis now. I don't want to go through the trouble of changing a chassis again let alone be impossible to afford. A mild steel structure (like cars and Disco/RR bodies) is easier to sort out than a chassis I think... Besides, don't 90s and 110s that have a TDi still fetch between 3 and 5 grand even if they are barely road legal?

[Retroanaconda]

Yes, the cost of them has gone up. I got my 90 for £3k in 2008, it's had some welding since then to the chassis, and will require some again this year for the MOT.

Problem with Discos and Rangies is that, as you quite rightly stated out in your first post, the insurance is going to be a lot more. They are a higher insurance group to start with.

I am not an experienced welder, but I would have thought a chassis, basically a big piece of box section, would be easier to fix than the more intricate shapes of sills/wheel arches/etc?

[Rich_P]

I am not an experienced welder, but I would have thought a chassis, basically a big piece of box section, would be easier to fix than the more intricate shapes of sills/wheel arches/etc?

Have you ever tried to cut 2-3mm steel plate with tin snips? I have to use the grinder and it's just a whole lot of hassle I don't like. Not after having had to do what I have on the 88 before.

[Retroanaconda]

You have a good point. Need yourself one of them fancy plasma cutters

In all seriousness, if you don't want to go down the early 90/110 route, the next cheapest Land Rovering to be had that isn't Series-based is with an early Disco. They go for cheap money as they're mostly all rust now.

Just got to swallow the insurance penalty for us young-uns

[rusty_wingnut]

buy my 90...

[redneck]

Keep the 88, Disco's are a complete pain in the a** repairing the bodywork (steel and aluminium) and the chasis will probably be rust as well (don't ask me how I know).

Get yourself some noise cancelling headphones and a comfortable steering wheel (you'll be surprised how much difference it can make).

Besides the 88 has got heaps more character.

[Night Train]

I'd stick with the 88" too (actually I would swap for a 109" but any Series Land Rover will have better character).

Get a load of sound proofing and carpets, a comfortable seat from a nice car (I had MGB seats, could sit in them all day) and a better sound system. Then kick back and enjoy.

[FridgeFreezer]

I'd look at freelanders - I run an old 1.8 2-door and have put over 30k on it in the last couple of years, it has the nip of a smaller car but is still higher up and has the green oval on it. It's quite similar to a Disco inside, but without the rattling. Seats four adults, I can take the roof off when the sun shines, it does 30mpg no matter how much I thrash it, it's nippy, parts are cheap, you can work on it yourself unlike small cars, they don't rust, they tow nicely, the ones with ETC are surprisingly good off-road, and they're pretty cheap to buy (especially the 1.8's because people are terrified of their head gaskets!). Also you can fit big bits of Land Rover into the boot.

Oh did I mention they don't rust.

[Soren Frimodt]

I too would suggest keeping the 88". If you refit the petrol and go carpet crazy inside the cab, you will be amazed at how quiet it is! My dad has a series 3 88" 2,25 petrol with a lot of performance bits. cruising at 90km/t it is just as comfortable as my brothers 90" 200tdi even without an overdrive. If you want to go sub-hundred km/t for long periods you will need some sort of gearing, be it RR diffs,ashcroft transfer or overdrive.

The thing is with your 88" that it looks like you have put a lot of work into it, and basically have made it as you like. This is really worth something to you that isn't easily replaced.

BUT if you are really getting sick and tired of it, and want something completely different, then maybe FF's idea isn't that bad.

[callum]

i think you just need to hit some insurance quotes to see what you can get. it seems to be the deciding factor and may at this stage mean you are stuck with an 88. a 90's japanese 4x4, or a freelander, will solve many of your woes, but is no good if you can't afford to insure it.

[jules]

Disco's are very expensive to insure I have just bought another Range rover replacing my D2 as my everyday driver but last week I was looking at a ML AMG 55 and my wife thinking it would put the stops on it said what will a black 360bhp ML cost to insure well £200 a year less than a Td5 ES D2 I ended up with the 51 plate RR4lt HSE which was £150 cheaper than the Disco 2.

go figure...

[Aragorn]

You dont actually say how old you are? You also say you dont want to know about crappy cars like Metros, which i can fully understand, i wouldnt want to go near one either, but what about good cars?

We've just baught a 2000 model Audi A4 Quattro as our daily. Costing the missus about 650 a year to insure (shes 23 with 3yrs ncb). Might not be a landrover, but its a damn sight better to drive, quieter and comfier, and as a plus still has 4wd, and cost us £1900. Has leather, climate control and all the other modern bits that make it nice to drive about in.

I dont think the cost of a landrover reflects thru in the comfort and noise stakes. If you want something comfortable and quiet, theres much better ways to spend 2 grand, than another landrover.

I also dont get the comments about not being able to work on cars? I do all my own repairs on the Audi, replaced the engine in the last one along with a new clutch and timing belt etc, and only a few weeks ago did a rear wheel bearing on my brothers S4, on the drive, only nipping along to a garage to have the bearing itself pressed in, and i've had the new one in bits already to service all the brakes and change a rear spring. People look at modern cars with their plastic covers and electronics as though they're some kind of unfathomable black box, but mechanically its exactly the same as the next car/van/landrover, just with some plastic glued on top, and a pile of electronics that actually help you to diagnose problems!

Another point to note, my brother reached a similar point to yourself a while back, with an old car of his (it was a crappy vauxhall that he'd put a lot of time and money into but had got bored with it) he was in the same position, sell it on and buy something else, or keep it going and try to fix the things that were annoying him. He finally got persuaded into keeping it by the forum (and myself) and spent even more money trying to fix the things he was tired of. Fitted a new larger engine, changed the suspension to make it more practical etc etc, but 6 months later he realised he was still bored with it, and now was further annoyed that he'd just spent all this money on it. Ended up selling it at a huge loss and baught an E30 BMW, which was really what he'd been wanting the first time round, which he drove happily for over 2 years.

[FridgeFreezer]

I also dont get the comments about not being able to work on cars?

I agree to an extent that (LR owners especially) are overly wary of anything with an ECU, however from a purely physical perspective I've worked on small cars and they're just so damn small & fiddly to work on compare to a Landy which you don't even have to jack up to get underneath.

[Rich_P]

You dont actually say how old you are?

I'm 20, 21 in a few months time (my policy expires shortly after that). I like you suggestions Aragorn, but insurance is still madness for me as I've been unable to build up any NCB. A lot of companies didn't want to know about the 88 due to its age (many still don't, with my age being so young for such an old car and having an unhealthy postcode for insurance). Insurance rates haven't really fallen over the three and a bit years I've held my licence either - I can only guess that's because rates have been going up with all the economic issues etc.

I appreciate the comments made by people in this topic, and I'll certainly take note of what's been said.

[Aragorn]

You just need to play the system as best as you can without doing something that will get you into trouble

Mate of mine was at uni in glasgow, but left his cars registered and insured at his parents up north, which saved him a huge amount. Dawn did the same with the old Fiesta and A4 when she was at uni. Yes it might get tricky if you do have to claim, but just keep your wits about you, they only know what you tell them.

Its also worthwhile adding a few old folk onto the policy. Our A4 currently has both my mum and dawns mum on it as named drivers, as they helped knock a bit off. The mate mentioned above had 4 folk on the policy at one point, because 4 was the point that it bottomed out, 5 folk made it go back up again

Also if your looking at other cars, bear in mind that insurance groups are fickle, and never tell the whole story, because an insurer will also apply their own corrections. For instance a Subaru Impreza and our A4 may well be in the same group, but the impreza is more likely to be driven by muppets and is a bigger target for theives. You can even get variations within the same model, ie a 3door version might cost more than the 5 door variant even though the group is exactly the same, because some statistics have shown the 3 door is involved in more accidents etc. You'll also find that some cars are in a group thats much higher than you'd expect. I had an old Mk3 Astra 1.4, total poverty spec heaper, but it was in group 8, whereas similar bogspec cars from other manufacturers, and even newer astras, were in group 4-5ish.

You really just have to shop around, and do plenty of research to find all these quirks before buying!

[nicks90]

definitely agree with aragorn on the insurance front,

one of my staff has just passed his test (19y old) and it was cheaper for him to insure a ford mondeo 1.8 than a saxo 1.1

even though the mondeo is theoretically a higher insurance group, it doesnt have the same loadings that a saxo has when driven by a young inexperienced driver. So he now owns a nice mondeo thats faster than all his mates 'plastic fantastic' super minis, he can take all his mates places without them ended up crippled and deformed and its a much safer car for when he has an accident...

my second car - back in the days of yore - was a volvo 264, 6cylinder petrol engine was lovely and it was hilarious fun doing doughnuts in and cost virtually nothing to insure. My mates were paying about £500 a year to insure escorts and astras, i was paying half that

[FridgeFreezer]

Not all insurance companies understand Land Rovers, try NFU.

If you just need something cheap to hack about in, I second the suggestion of something like a £500 Mondeo. I did a similar thing when I was young, picked a "grandad" car (Nissan Bluebird) which was cheaper to insure than all the usual teenager superminis despite having a bigger engine and comfortable room for mates, guitars, etc. You've never seen a Golf GTi driver so disappointed as when they're beaten off the lights by something their grandad would drive it also stood up much better when someone crashed into it, glad I wasn't in a Metro or Fiesta that day!

[heath robinson]

I'll second Fridge's comments, that's what I did when my truck was off the road when I was about your age, had a Daihatsu Charmant (Only one I've ever seen!) which was £400ish per year, and was a 5-speed 1.6 with a live back axle... A small amount of fiddling, and I spent a year going everywhere sideways! It was granddad-greeny-silver, and I sort of wish that I still had it.

It's worth noting that your premium should drop when you hit 21, and again at 25 I think. Footman James have been good, I'm still in my 20's, and with little no-claims I'm paying £100 a year fully comp on a 4.2 110, and get breakdown etc! I used to be with Lancaster, for about £400 a year, from the age of 24 maybe, which was fine until I actually came to claim, when the spent a year trying to wheedle out of paying. Even though the underwriters were in the wrong, Lancaster did sweet FA as my brokers to sort it out, so I wouldn't recommend them.

Jake