errol209 Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 i have checked out the white wire and it is only live when the ignition is on, i cant really say i can hear a click when i connect the terminal to the pump?, would this then point to the solonoid being stuck open?, if so why did the engine shut down when i pull the wire off?? Paul I'll bet this is the infamous diode-in-the-charge-warning-light-circuit problem - do you get a voltage reading on the fuel solenoid wire even when you turn the ignition off? If so you need to mod the charge warning light wiring so that the alternator doesn't hold the solenoid open. There is a thread which i will try to find while you go and do the measurement ... EDIT: This one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpy Posted May 31, 2010 Author Share Posted May 31, 2010 I'll bet this is the infamous diode-in-the-charge-warning-light-circuit problem - do you get a voltage reading on the fuel solenoid wire even when you turn the ignition off? If so you need to mod the charge warning light wiring so that the alternator doesn't hold the solenoid open. There is a thread which i will try to find while you go and do the measurement ... EDIT: This one! hi again, I have just tested with a voltmeter and none of the 3 spade connectors that would reach the fuel pump have any power output when there is no key in the ignition, I did mark the wires up so im certain they are on the correct terminals? with ignition on, but not with engine running the fuel terminal reads 11.90, the oil 11.90 and I have a random terminal that only puts out 4.7? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poohbear Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I think Errol is reffering to a faulty diode which if not working means when the engine is running it feeds12v to the stop solenoid. Kind of a feedback loop which only happens when the engine is running. I Don't think you can trace this fault with the tests you have described. D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpy Posted June 3, 2010 Author Share Posted June 3, 2010 Just an update really, bought a new stop solenoid, which didnt fit, but it did show me the problem, with the ignition on the old one wasnt withdrawing far enough, so i replaced the spring and plunger and hey presto it now turns off happy days. Just one small little query though? i do still have this female spade connecter hanging about, now it is dead without ignition, but puts out 4.7volts with ignition on, both wiring looms have the same connector, but i cant find where it goes?, everything seems to work electrically wise, but it must have a purpose? the wire itself is green and comes from the same area as the fuel and oil pump one, it starts as two green wires then goes into a rubber connector, coming out as a single green wire with a female spade on the end? any ideas? cheers Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Paul, good news, well done A pic may help with the green wire. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bow Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 sounds like the 2nd temp probe feed, on the 2.5td the temp probe has two feeds, one at the bulk head loom and one coming from the engine loom, i'm sure this was a green lead, a grown up will be along soon to say if i'm wrong or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 plain gren wires behind the instrument pack are normaly 12v ign feeds for the gauges, the oil temp & oil pressure gauges were optional on the older 2.5n/a & TD diesels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpy Posted June 6, 2010 Author Share Posted June 6, 2010 hi all, another update, along with this are pictures of the afformentioned green wire to see if any light can be shed? today, started cracking on rebuilding the rest of the truck, with no problems to mention???????????? needed to move it forward a foot or two and the damn, **,**********fu*****,*****wan*in*, bloody thing wont start? what the hell have i done, i do have dreams, but i dont remember one where i have killed the pope or slept with a nun, so why am i being punished????? Hilarity aside, what is going on? yesterday it started and sounded lovely, today the engine turns over but wont fire, so far i have replaced what may have been a faulty stop solenoid, which did allow me to turn the truck off as i should be able to, the part i bought was new, but was britpart and didnt seem to go in enough?, but with it in it started, today same set up naadda? Nothing has changed, the engine seems not to be getting any fuel? it still turns over as it should but doesnt fire, i have cracked open an injector on the cylinder head and no fuel, gone further back and there seems to be fuel coming through the system until it hits the pump, i took the start of a different injector pipe off and thats where the fuel seems to stop at the intake of the pump? all this was done whilst the engine was being cranked. I have also had the fuel filter off and made sure it is brimming with fuel to prevent air lock. this is the source of the wire the rubber connector where it changes from double to single and its terminal cheers Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poohbear Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 My money is on stop solenoid - can you swap back to the original 'stuck open' solenoid to rule it out? Also suggest checking you have 12v on the solenoid with ignition on. Wouldn't worry too much about the extra green wire - as Western mentioned there is extra wiring in the loom for optional guages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 Have you kept the original engines wiring in the vehicle or used the Tdi engines wiring ? if it's the original engines loom & that green wire wasn't connected then safely secure it clear of any harm. without me pulling my 110's loom open [i've just ben out for a look] I can't see a similar wire on my loom, but it's probably either in use or tucked up safely. The spade connector end in your last picture is it a thin plastic cover or a thick cover ? as I have a thick connector which looks similar secured safely behind the brake servo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpy Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 Have you kept the original engines wiring in the vehicle or used the Tdi engines wiring ? if it's the original engines loom & that green wire wasn't connected then safely secure it clear of any harm. without me pulling my 110's loom open [i've just ben out for a look] I can't see a similar wire on my loom, but it's probably either in use or tucked up safely. The spade connector end in your last picture is it a thin plastic cover or a thick cover ? as I have a thick connector which looks similar secured safely behind the brake servo. back again, still not driving as it wont start?? i have swapped back to the faulty solenoid and the engine just turns, but wont fire. Some advice from Paddocks was I may need to bleed the fuel pump in case there is an airlock, which seems to make sense to me as there is no fuel getting passed the pump? is there an online manual for a disco 1 as the pumps look different from the defender or could someone suggest anything or tell me where the bleed screw/bolt is located on a 200 tdi? Cheers Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Bleed screw on the filter housing to check the lift pump is working - if fuel comes out of there, then you can be sure it's getting to the injector pump. Slacken one of the injector pipes and crank the engine to see if fuel is getting to the engine. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpy Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 Bleed screw on the filter housing to check the lift pump is working - if fuel comes out of there, then you can be sure it's getting to the injector pump. Slacken one of the injector pipes and crank the engine to see if fuel is getting to the engine. Les. Hi Les, thanks for your reply, I have bled the system as you have said, already cracked open an injector and nothing is getting there, thats why it sorta makes sense that its the fuel pump. All the fuel system up to the pump works as it should and fuel comes out of the pipe that connects to the pump, but not beyond. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Paul, sounds like the stop solenoid isn't allowing the fuel to get to the injectors ie:fubarred thats the only thing I can think of unless there's not 12V getting to the solenoid John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpy Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 cheers john, im gonna fit another new solenoid today to see if that sorts it, but the one that is in is new? and it is getting 12v when ignition is on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 take the plunger/spring out & refit the solly body, then see if it starts, you'll have to stall it to stop the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpy Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 take the plunger/spring out & refit the solly body, then see if it starts, you'll have to stall it to stop the engine. Hi Western, thanks for the idea and i can see what you are getting at, but as the truck hasnt moved since its transplant i dont want to have to rely on stalling it before it has moved and i know everything works. I have just come in from fitting another brand new solenoid and still nothing, engine turns but no diesel is getting through the pump, i have again opened an injector to make sure, bone dry? What next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 any fuel at the soleniod & out of the 4 injector pipe connections, if no fuel from the 4 injector connections, I reckon the pump [FIP] is busted, did it run OK, before removal from it's original vehicle ? diesel fault diagnosis chart.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpy Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 any fuel at the soleniod & out of the 4 injector pipe connections, if no fuel from the 4 injector connections, I reckon the pump [FIP] is busted, did it run OK, before removal from it's original vehicle ? hi western, yeah the engine has run with this pump on it, it is as it came out of the discovery, only things i have had to put on is altand starter motor. the bowl where the stop solenoid sits into has fuel in there, there is fuel sitting in the holes the injector pipes fit to, but no fuel comes out of the rear of the pump so i guess this is just residual? The only thing that does seem amiss is the lift pump, it has no pressure whatsoever, even after pumping for a minute or so? after i bled the filter the pump arm was hard as it should be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 normally a Tdi will run if the lift pump is a bit suspect, if you have a new pump [delphi is a good make] shove it on 7 see if that cures the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 normally a Tdi will run if the lift pump is a bit suspect Only if you haven't introduced air into the system by changing the filter, pipes, etc. You won't get it to start in a month of sundays without a tow start or a good supply of batteries otherwise Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpy Posted June 14, 2010 Author Share Posted June 14, 2010 Only if you haven't introduced air into the system by changing the filter, pipes, etc. You won't get it to start in a month of sundays without a tow start or a good supply of batteries otherwise Les. so, back to my original question, how do i bleed the fuel pump?, where is the screw/bolt located on a disco 200tdi pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Paul,far be it for me to teach you to suck egg's, but is the fuel filter full of diesel? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpy Posted June 14, 2010 Author Share Posted June 14, 2010 Paul,far be it for me to teach you to suck egg's, but is the fuel filter full of diesel? John any advice is welcome mate, filter should be full i filled it when i put it back on and also i have bled it as les describes above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody3 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Hi Paul, I had a similar problem with my 19J...It turned out that I needed a new fuel pipe as the compressed washer part of the pipe had been over tightened (not be me-honest!) and was letting air in. I also replaced the Lift Pump at the same time as I was only getting drips of fuel at the injectors. Worked fine since. A Lift Pump is only a few quid from Paddocks/Tonks. Where abouts are you in Mansfield? I'm just off Junc 27... Cheers, Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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