Finn Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Hi Guys, I have a question about the 2P3070CTDFB Dowty Hydraulic Pump for the LT230 Defender box. The pump and pto are installed to a defender and a log splitter is connected. The problem is that the pump does only about 2 liter/min, regardless the selected gear. This is very slow.. But we cannot figure out where the problem is. The unit looks good, also from the inside. It does not get warm.. Has anyone got an idea what could be wrong? If it should be the pump.. are there replacement units for sale? Many thanks, Finn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Do you know what the pump should put out? Does the pump also carry a reference like GP2 25? Or is there a reference like that in any Land Rover Sales or Engineering literature for the pump? For reference, there are 4 pumps listed in LR Series 2 literature GP2 25, 45, 65, 85. GP2 refers to the 'Group 2' style of the pumps, 25, 45, etc refer to the delivery in Gallons Per Minute at 1500 rpm. Within the hydraulic industry, 1500 rpm is a standard rpm for measuring outputs. Group 2 (there are also Group 3 and Group 4 pumps) defines a standard mounting, and therefore physical pump size. 2.5 GPM =~11.4 Litres per Minute. 4.5 GPM =~20.4 Litres per Minute. Presumably your pump is second hand. Have you taken the end cover off and checked for dirty or sticking or rusty valves? Oops, you said the pump looks good from the inside, so the valves must be OK. I'm not familiar with the detail of these pumps - did you see an overload valve that might be sticking open? I've had that fault on a power steering pump. Is it this pump by any chance? HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Posted June 20, 2010 Author Share Posted June 20, 2010 Yes, this is the pump: I don't have any literature on it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 The pump on mine is a GP2 85 and needs 1" feed pipe and 1/2" pressure pipes and has a 5 gallon tank , the output on your mates pump looks quite small , what size are the ports in the pump? Also what type of PRV and valve blocks is he running? The 25 in the pump number suggests its a 2.5gpm ? cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 The pump is second hand indeed.. I will have to ask him about the port sizes. I am not so familliar with these pumps, could you explain what you mean by PRV? And how can I see what valve blocks he is running? Do they have a number? Cheers, Finn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyboy Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 could you explain what you mean by PRV? Cheers, Finn "Pressure Relief Valve" Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 If the system has a 2 way valve vehicle mounted the PRV will most likely be part of the valve - usually an allen key screw with a lock nut. You must have a in line pressure gauge suitable for the pressure (250 bar) fitted to safely check what it blows at, also with any valves in the system make sure they are fully open when they are supposed to be , electric valves will tend to be either open or shut but a mech valve will flow a reduced pressure feed when partly open and dump the rest to the return line. If the system on the vehicle is purely a feed/return on quick release couplings then you should have a PRV/bypass connection between the feed/return on the vehicle to allow safe flow should it be engaged without being plugged into the splitter etc Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Posted June 27, 2010 Author Share Posted June 27, 2010 Sorry for my late reply, I have been away from home for several days. I added some more pictures of the pump. The pump is turns clockwise. My mate has measured the RPM in 1st to 5th gear at the pumps output. He measured it with the engine running at ca. 820 RPM. 1.Gear = 180 RPM 2.Gear = 310 RPM 3.Gear = 470 RPM 4.Gear = 570 RPM 5.Gear = 595 RPM The PRV is not on the pump itself. My mate uses a external PRV on the Pressure hose (P), which he installed with 160bar and a return hose to the tank. But this is not operation (normally you would hear this, but you don't). So ..still not working :s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 Unless im missing something like a set of drop gears in the pto body the pump should run at engine speed in 4th and faster in 5th. The end plate photo shows the relevant code, 2P3070CTDFB. This means its a 2P size of the 3000 series with a flow of 7 imp gallons/min @ 1500rpm, clockwise rotation, taper shaft, dowty 4 bolt mounting, dowty body ports with a std end cover. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Phil, I confess it was your breakdown of the part number that made me look more closely at my records. Particularly the bit about the shaft being tapered. That doesn't look tapered in the pictures, so I went looking for, and found, my Dowty Model Number Breakdown, which I include here in case there is other information in it that helps. It does confirm your 'T = Tapered' analysis, so I'm still stumped as to why that pump is classed as having a tapered shaft. The standard taper on modern pumps is the same as these old Dowty pumps, 1:8, or as the diagram puts it, <Taper per inch on diameter 0.125">. I think that should be easy to see in a photo. Dowty Model Code breaker 365_016_600.pdf I tend to agree that, if the pump speed has been measured correctly, there must be a drop down set of gears in that PTO housing. The low pump speed explains the low output. However, I'm not familiar with the LT230 gearbox and it's PTO; Are we certain it runs at 1:1, and therefore at engine speed when 4th gear is selected? If we take the engine speed of 820 and the pump speed in 4th of 570 as accurate, the engine would have to do 2158 rpm to give a pump speed of 1500 rpm. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 However, I'm not familiar with the LT230 gearbox and it's PTO; Are we certain it runs at 1:1, and therefore at engine speed when 4th gear is selected? If we take the engine speed of 820 and the pump speed in 4th of 570 as accurate, the engine would have to do 2158 rpm to give a pump speed of 1500 rpm. HTH BUT, the photo above shows a standard 1:1 PTO adapter housing, just like mine. All it has in it is a dog clutch onto the back of the main box output gear, so it should run 1:1 with the engine in 4th. To only get 2l/min, my guess it that it (the pump) isn't engaging with the gearbox output properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 What could be the reason not engaging properly with the gearbox output? By the way.. thanks for that manual, looks interesting! Cheers, Finn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 What could be the reason not engaging properly with the gearbox output? By the way.. thanks for that manual, looks interesting! Cheers, Finn Dog clutch not engaging with the gearbox output shaft, possibly because you've assembled it backwards or the selector fork isn't set up right or the detent isn't holding it in. The only other interface is the pump to the PTO adapter shaft : you have all the right parts in the picture. How exactly did he measure the RPM values? With the pump on or off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 The pump needs to run at about 1500 - 2000 rpm to work well. The unions on the pump both look too small for the flow expected , the suction from the tank should be 1" ideally and the pressure pipes 1/2" bore size . Is there a filter in the system between the tank and the pump? Some pics of the rest of the set up would be useful - tank(what capacity?) , pipe work sizes and the splitter and its associated pipes and valve. Finally what grade of oil is in the system? 4th is 1:1 so direct drive and the pto will either be engaged or not there is little possibility of it slipping. cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristof Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Hi guys, is here anybody who can tell me whats te max rpm of this pump may be? Greetings Kristof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Download the document linked in David Sparkes' post and you will find the information you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottyMa Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 (edited) Ciao Grazie sono riuscito a scaricarlo Edited January 29, 2023 by GottyMa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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