My 88 / 90

[Gunny]

Evening all,

I'm new on this forum. Would just like to say hi and show you my new project. Not sure if I should post on here or on the series forum, she's more 90 than 88".

She's a 1977 88" But was rebuilt in 1995 with alot of 90 parts.

She has a mint chassis, never been welded. Think the whole running gear has been replaced with new.

She has a 2.5TD. She has been raised with nice springs.

Body work is abit rubbish, looks like about 6 different layers of paint. I'm going to repaint and wax oil the chassis to keep her mint.

Body work is going to be rubbed down and repainted in the next few weeks.

I paid £1200 for her with mot & tax, You guys must have seen her on fleebay.

She has only two problems that I can see...

1..She smokes white on startup...It's fine on acceleration but soon as you let the gas off she smokes again...I think it's the injectors or the timing out....Checked oil and there is cream or anything in there. Thoughts welcome please.

2..I drove her round our airfield and the clutch pedal goes straight to the floor with hardly any pressure. Is this a seal that could have gone?

Here's a few pics

http://photobucket.com/phil-peacock

Any thoughts welcome guys.

Cheers

Phil

[bobed90]

Which bit of it is a series 3 then? the whole truck looks like a 90!! is it still on leaf springs? if its not i would seriously question the legality of the vehicle you have purchased. Looks smart though, wish mine was still in a more standard form, from time to time.

[zim]

It looks like it is on coils ? And full 90 panels ?

G

[Gunny]

Hi Guy's,

Now you are getting me worried....There is no leaf springs, she's on coils.

When I went to insure her they told me they wouldn't do it, because she should have had a petrol engine not a diesel. The owner before me had to ring up dvla then take the car to the garage to be checked, just waiting for her to send me the v5.

This is where I bought it and the info she put on the ad.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120578191427&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Where do I stand if they sold me a illegal motor?

Any ideas what could my two problems could be.

Many thanks

Phil

[errol209]

Hi Guy's,

Now you are getting me worried....There is no leaf springs, she's on coils.

When I went to insure her they told me they wouldn't do it, because she should have had a petrol engine not a diesel. The owner before me had to ring up dvla then take the car to the garage to be checked, just waiting for her to send me the v5.

This is where I bought it and the info she put on the ad.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120578191427&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Where do I stand if they sold me a illegal motor?

Any ideas what could my two problems could be.

Many thanks

Phil

Er ... it looks like a 90, you say its on coil springs, it has a 2.5TD and a 5-speed box - it isn't a 1977 motor.

Without fear of contradiction, it is a 90 and dates from (almost certainly) post-1985. What happens if you put the reg into here?

As to the two q's - 1. its a worn 2.5TD, welcome to the club and 2. it could be master cylinder, slave, or the pushrod about to go through the fork ...

[errol209]

More thoughts and another question:

What is the VIN number (minus the last five digits - we don't need them), and is the same number stamped:

- on the bulkhead inside the vehicle;

- on the right hand front spring hanger;

- on a plate riveted to the top of the brake pedal box in the engine compartment; or

- on the right-hand side of the chassis forward the spring mounting turret?

You can check what these numbers mean yourself here.

If it is a 1977 machine is will be an eight-digit number with some suffix letters, if it's actually a 90 it will start SALLDVA

I think someone has borrowed an SIII chassis number and added it to a 90 (and not told anyone).

[Gunny]

Cheers Tinkerer,

92100****

Can't find any chassis numbers on the bulkhead or the chassis, only on the brake servo which looks to me as the number was put on with a dremmel. plus the rivets look newish.

On the chassis rhs just in front of the spring turret there is two thin vertical strips about 3/4" with two bolts in each, would this of been where the chassis number would have been? The chassis is really good, no welding patches at all which makes me think.

Tinkerer, Mot and tax is right for the vehicle, where do I stand with insuring it, because their records will say its a 88 due to the plate but it's a 90? Also where do I stand in the eyes of the law?

Cheers

Phil

[Landy'd Gentry]

Quick DVLA check brought upthe following:

VEHICLE ENQUIRY Services Provided By DVLA:

The enquiry is complete

The vehicle details for CJX 131S are:

Date of Liability 01 10 2002

Date of First Registration 01 09 1977

Year of Manufacture 1975

Cylinder Capacity (cc) 2286CC

CO2 Emissions Not Available

Fuel Type Petrol

Export Marker Not Applicable

Vehicle Status Unlicensed

Vehicle Colour GREEN

Vehicle Type Approval

Vehicle Excise Duty Rate for vehicle

6 Months Rate £112.75

12 Months Rate £205.00

This is what your insurance company would have checked.

HTH

[Gunny]

Thanks guys,

The vehicle is taxed so I don't know why it says it's not..It runs out at the end of the month..

I have done a pdi check on the vehicle which came back as a 88"

It also has a current mot, which would have been a 90 at the time but model was not entered on the mot cert.

Do I go to the police or do I just insure it as a 88 with a 2.5td?

Cheers lads

Phil

[errol209]

Thanks guys,

The vehicle is taxed so I don't know why it says it's not..It runs out at the end of the month..

I have done a pdi check on the vehicle which came back as a 88"

It also has a current mot, which would have been a 90 at the time but model was not entered on the mot cert.

Do I go to the police or do I just insure it as a 88 with a 2.5td?

Cheers lads

Phil

It isn't an 88 but it has a Series III VIN! The MOT isn't relevant to whether the mods were declared or not, just that it passed the MOT. You need to get all the details straight with the DVLA (weight, engine size, VIN, etc.) first, which may need the current version of the SVA inspection (a hybrid adult will be along shortly)

The strips you found are the lockers for the power steering. another giveaway it isn't an 88. look a bit further forward of these, nearer the bumper.

IMHO you have bought a right little pot of problems!

Errol

[Landy'd Gentry]

Really silly question, but:

Does the tax dic match the reg number?

I knew of several people who would swap a tax disc form one vehicle to another, even use a tax disc from their 50cc moped in the window of their car (that was until he got an caught)

You'll also find the chassis nuber on the MOT cert.

I can't understand why the DVLA would list the vehicle as untaxed.

I have just done a check on my fleet, all details correct. As I have just retaxed on vehicle at my local post office, I thought would the system be updated yet, but yes, it showed as taxed

[errol209]

I'm with LD on the tax disc. The DVLA site is fed off their database, so they and HM Constabulary think it has no tax ...

IVA guidelines

The above link takes you to the BritGov words on radically modifying your car.

Given that whoever re-built the 88 with "some" 90 parts "radically altered" the following:

chassis - a coil sprung chassis was not available for the series III 88"

suspension - coils instead of leafs

axles - 90 axles are a different track, have CVs and disks on the front

transmission - new box is five speed

steering assembly - the 90 almost certainly has PAS

engine - the 2.5TD was not available in 1977

You will have some paperwork to do!

[Landy'd Gentry]

Gunny,

there is a website where you can check the vehicles MOT history.

It may be worth a look.

As I said earlier, nothing wrong with a hybrid.

Another thought is that who ever 'built' this landy, thought that in a few years time it wouldbe 'tax free' after using the chassis and reg number off an older vehicle.

[foggy3061]

Is it just me or does it seam that the extent of the 1995 rebuild was fitting a series 3 vin plate to the 90!?

It which case where has the 90 come from? Is it a stolen vehicle thats been given a new identity in the past and sold on, or a written off vehicle that has been repaired and again had its true identity hidden with a series 3 vin...........?

[zim]

Did the seller seem genuine ?

Gordon

[Holyzeus]

This is where I bought it and the info she put on the ad.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120578191427&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Going by the first line of her advert maybe she like you bought it in good faith then realised what a can of worms it is.....

[Gunny]

Hi Guy's,

I think you are all right. I cleaned up the chassis today on right front and low & behold the chassis number has been ground off.

I also spoke to the lady that sold me the landy today, she has got the log book back off dvla. It's says on the log book that the car was rebuilt with new and used parts (Just not any parts from a series bar the vin, which is not a full one).

The lady seems very straight who sold me it.

My friend who's a police traffic officer is coming over in a few hours to give it a good going over and do some digging for me.

Seems to us that the bloke that rebuilt it had a 90 with a carp chassis then bought a good 2nd hand chassis but ground off the number. then maybe he had a old scrap 88" 4cyl that he took the vin off and number plate. Only thing is, he dremmeled the vin number on the plate not stamped it.

Why would he do that and not use the 90 old chassis vin number unless it was nicked or scrapped.

I'm hoping the worst case is I have to get a new vin number and plate for her (Q plate) unless I can track down the vehicle reg of the 90.

Will let you know what my mate says.

Thanks for all your feedback and thoughts.

Just goes to show one thing, Even if you do a hpi check you could still buy a doggy motor.

Cheers

Phil

[errol209]

Sorry to hear about all this, I hope you get it all sorted out quickly and easily.

The trouble with series and Defenders is that they are big kits anyway, so people will "play".

Hope we've been some help, and this hasn't put you off too much!

Let us know how you get on.

Regards,

Errol.

[Mo Murphy]

Good luck, a Q plate is nothing to worry about and it looks like you got yourself a bargain even if you do have to wait to get it sorted

Mo

[western]

Here's hoping for a good result for you & the 90, it'll make a tidy truck once all the priblems are sorted.

[Landy'd Gentry]

The anticipation of it all!

At the endof the day,the reg number is only an identifier. If youdo have to go through a series of hoops to get a new vin, then at least the vehicle would have been checked out thoroughly, and you can set your mind at ease regards it's build quality.

You have in essence a good basis for an excellent beast to do with as you like!

This journey of discovery will only develope your love for the vehicle asyou get to know it better.

I hope it all works out for you.

[Gunny]

Thanks Guys,

I won't let it put me off.

Right, My mate has been...IT'S A 90 through & through...Just what you all said.

He has told me to contact my local West Mercia Police and let them do their chassis & engine checks to see if it's nicked.

Well fingers crossed.

Thanks again.

Cheers

Phil

[Gunny]

Afternoon all,

Just a update really.

A police sgt came to look at my landy a couple of weeks ago, It has now been taken away by the police to be checked by one of their examiners. Don't know how long it's going to take. I phoned the dvla about the tax disc and it was a legit tax disc but was not on their records for some reason.

One thing I have learned is that you can still get caught out even if you do a hpi check. Colour, vin, reg number were correct, plus all the correct paperwork.If you don't know your vehicle your buying like I didn't you can still get stuffed. It was only because of you guy's that I knew it was a 90 chassis and not a series III one, but it was too late then I'd bought the thing.

If i'm very lucky and it's not nicked, how much will it cost me to put the landy on a Q reg? Also will my insurance go through the roof because it's on a Q plate?

Cheers

Phil

[western]

It'll only cost you the price of new number plates if you get it back & have to put a Q prefix plate on, get talking to your insurers now, so you 7 they have a head start if/when the 90 is returned, if the police checks are negative then the 90 will be destroyed & you will have a big lose to deal with.

hope you get it back as a legal vehicle.

[dirtyninety]

i saw this on ebay a couple of weeks ago, it actually got sold twice on ebay due to the fact its definitely not a series 3. I only live about 5/6 miles away and went and had a look, it looked a damn good bargin for a 90 and it most definitely is a 90!

Is this the same 90 that had a MOT at....a local MOT centre and the police went round on monday and had a barny because they MOT'd a 90 with a ground off chassis number? The police also asked "could you not tell it was 88inch??"

hmmm im pretty sure it is!

I have absolutely NO connection with the garage... i just know a chap whom works there!