Further afield forum foray?

[Turbocharger]

Yeah, pencil me in for the late part of Spring or early Summer. Sounds like a fantastic week out, but can we have it all tarmacked first for the likes of Bish and I?

Si - re Pennines - our mountains are small. Theirs are far away...

Camping / outside of school hols please.

[JST]

Chris,

a topic we have discussed before!!!

i would def be interested, timing is not an issue, as long as i know in advance, i am more than keen to come along, camping would be my preffered option, Pyrennes sounds like a good place to start!

Note diesel is only 64p a litre in france at the moment!

If theres space please count me in and for any help needed please drop me a line, more than willing to help as required.

[honitonhobbit]

Loads of PM's - too many to reply to all. Yes I will talk to Chris and sort out some more details.

I would like to go again myself.

I have been thinking about linking up with some mates in the Grandes Randoneurs to do a France Spain thing in the spirit of the old Raid De Santiago - but just for about 2 or three groups of five.

Sadly the Pirenees has got a bit difficult recently with Spain closing access, the French getting very greedy and the Basque getting bored. However it is possible to nip over via the old Pilgrims Route (tarmac but only just) have a few bevies in Bilbao and footle on down via a good fast road to the Argagon (the place they filmed all the Spagetti westerns)

[toger]

I have been thinking about linking up with some mates in the Grandes Randoneurs to do a France Spain thing in the spirit of the old Raid De Santiago - but just for about 2 or three groups of five.

This sounds interesting.

Sadly the Pirenees has got a bit difficult recently with Spain closing access,

Why is that, please?

the French getting very greedy and

Why is that,please?

the Basque getting bored.

Why is that,please?

[honitonhobbit]

The Spanish closed a lot of the driveable routes through the national Parks on their side of Pyrenees - mainly due to bobble hat wearing, yogurt knitting, sandal wearing pseudohippiesque antioffroadertypes

Things got quite nasty in some places. However the non national park areas are still okay

On the FRENCH side you need permisions from the local mayor to travel most of the routes, with limitations in vehicle numbers and police involvement if you fail to bide by the rules. Palm greasing is becoming more and more popular on the easier/more used routes

"The Basque - an amazing people who live at the western end of the Pyrenees, along the coast of the Bay of Biscay. The Basque-speaking region runs from the city of Bayonne in France west to the city of Bilbao in Spain, a distance of about 100 miles (160 kilometers); it extends inland about 30 miles (50 kilometers), not quite reaching the city of Pamplona.

Throughout the Middle Ages, the Basque provinces, north and south, were largely self-governing, and they had a vigorous tradition of local democracy. Over time, of course, Basque autonomy came under increasing pressure from Paris and Madrid. In the north, Basque rights were abruptly swept away by the French Revolution. In the south, autonomy lasted longer, but in the 19th century it came under attack from centralist governments in Madrid, leading to major civil wars on two occasions and to the enforced removal of the traditional Basque rights.

From the late 19th century, the Spanish Basques, fearing for their language and their culture, began pressing for reforms and for greater autonomy. This strictly peaceful campaign was interrupted by the installation of a right-wing dictatorship in Spain in the 1930s, but regained its momentum after the restoration of democracy. But then a military coup in 1936 led to the Spanish Civil War and to the establishment of a brutal Fascist dictatorship in Spain under General Franco. The Basques, who had fought against the Fascists during the war, suffered terribly during the war and under the subsequent Fascist oppression: quite apart from the death and destruction caused by the war itself (including the deliberate destruction of two Basque cities by Hitler's air force), the Basques found themselves singled out for particular vengeance by Franco. Basque soldiers and politicians who had not managed to flee into exile were imprisoned, condemned to forced labor, tortured, and often shot; all outward signs of Basque identity were prohibited, and the very speaking of Basque was declared illegal.

Permitted no legal voice, the Basques gradually began to organize clandestinely to discuss what might be done. A student discussion group founded in 1953 and originally called EKIN changed its name in 1959 to ETA and began to contemplate more active resistance. At first ETA was in no way violent, but every attempt at a political gesture was met by savagery from the Spanish police and courts: arbitrary arrests, routine beatings and torture, and long jail sentences. Eventually ETA took the plunge into violence of its own and began assassinating known torturers and murderers among the Spanish authorities. The police reacted with ever greater violence of their own: uniformed police tortured and murdered Basques with complete impunity, death squads composed of off-duty policemen carried out further murders, and there were armed attacks on whole communities described by foreign observers as "police riots".

Faced with such violence, ETA gradually became ever less choosy in its targets, and began gunning for any police or soldiers they could get at. In a technically expert operation which would prove to have far-reaching consequences, ETA managed to assassinate Admiral Luis Carrero Blanco, the anointed heir of the aging Franco. As a result, when Franco finally died in 1975, a democratic government took control in Madrid; elections were held, and the Basque Autonomous Government was set up in 1979, with wide-ranging powers.

This outcome satisfied most people in the Basque Country, and most of the members of ETA quietly left the organization to resume normal lives. But a modest number of hard-core members remained, and continued a program of increasing violence all over Spain, in the hope of obtaining complete independence for the Basque Country. Army officers became favorite targets, and bombs were placed in popular tourist resorts with the intention of damaging the valuable tourist industry; even the new Basque police force came under attack. The new governments in both Madrid and the Basque Country made vigorous efforts to put a stop to this violence, but so far they have enjoyed only partial success."

There are numerous 'interesting' routes through the Basque areas that have become popular with the more hardcore French offroaders. Basque youths have taken to 'levelling tolls'. This is not being puplicised by the Tourist Board (funnily enough).

My eldest God-daughter is from a place called St. Jean Pied de Port so I have an 'ear' so to speak

[TJ101]

Chris,, as James says,,been on the do list for a while,, count me in, somewhere along the line, camping/hotels, not bothered, will go with thw flow !!

[GBMUD]

Well, thanks for the input guys. It is nice to think that I will not be going alone.

It sounds like most people would like to go outside of the school holidays and to camp. It remains to be decided where exactly we go but, as I mentioned above, somewhere within reach of Andorra would be nice - just for the duty free!

I made enquiries about the price of a ferry for that period but there was no prices available yet - too far to plan ahead I guess. The guy suggested £100-£200 depending on the crossing - I might go Poole or Weymouth to St Malo. Add to that camping, beer, food and fuel (160l each way) and, even with the cheaper fuel in France/Spain, I estimate I will not get much, if any, change from £750 by the time we get back. Time to start saving now I think!

In the meantime, between now and then, if anyone hears of any publication suggesting routes or of anyone who travels that way regularly, please find out what you can - campsites, best locations etc.

Sooner or later those who can make the chosen dates and still wish to come will need to commit in the form of a ferry ticket. In the meantime, have a think about dates. When does it suit you guys to go. I have nothing in my diary from mid April till the end of May - remember that the last week of May is usually half term and that Mayday bank holiday may push up ferry fares - although it is a 'free' day off work! Think also about how long we should plan to go for. Do we want 2-3 days over a weekend or longer? More than a few days can get too much - what about 2 days laneing with a day or two R+R (shopping, at the beach etc.) and then another two days laneing? It seems a long way to go just for a couple of days. Seems to me that it may be a good one for the other half to come on.

So, your thoughts and preferences then.

Cheers

Chris

[Les Henson]

I don't mind any date - being a self-employed layabout. Camping is good. Do I need to get a passport for travel inside the EU?

Les.

[Mark90]

Bit of a long way to go for a long weekend, I'd suggest a long week saturday to the following sunday. That gives two days for leisurely travel each way and then 5 days for 2 laning, 1 R&R, 2 laning as you suggest. Camping is good, dates are flexible with enough notice. Now do I save for fuel to take the 90 or the 110.

[toger]

Hi Mark,

Long time no see.

You gotta 110 now?

Which of the two gives the better fuel return and which of the two is the more comfortable for such a long journey?

[Mark90]

Aye got a TDi 110 and an almost finished V8 90. Dunno which will be most confortable, but I think I know which will return the best fuel consumption

[Hillbilly Raider]

Ferries savers.com is who i recommend..... this years ferry was £65 per truck return! (From Dover)

Becareful of Andorra... they let you buy what you want, but stop you as soon as you cross the boarder! (experiance speaking here)

Les yes passport is still needed.

And checkout school hoildays in France as campsites are often booked in advance for those by the French!

Also remember that the lanes you may wish to drive are/can be some way from the Ferry port so take the driving time into consideration when planning you time scales.

Mandy.

See i do have my uses!

P.S. you must use a proper campsite in France (pulling over off the road is not allowed)

[JST]

Chris,

happy to go whenever time of year wise, will just need to know in advance and book the time off.

i personally would rather not loose a weekend or at minimum only loose one weekend, but would like to go for 4/5 days mix and match for off roading as you stated. out Thur, back tue/wed, or ideally out sun back Fri.

i think you should plan early in the year as these things are bound to slip, it also leaves time for another one if needed later in the year.

as you suggested out Sun maybe return Thur would also work.

camping is my preferred option.

out of intetrest what sort of greenlaning are we talking? eg mud terrains or All terrain capability?

[white90]

where we went Mud terrains ideally all terrains would get through most of it.

a winch was only used once to rescue a Toyota L/Cruiser than got a tad stuck/crossaxled.

[blue disco]

So, as the title says, we have had forum trips to Wales a few times, both greenlaneing and, with the J33p club, to Seven Sisters. How about going further afield next time? I am thinking perhaps a trip to the Pyrenees. I have never been but I know some forum members have and I would dearly love to go - but rather in a group than alone.

I am not looking for a solid commitment, just really to see who would be interested in something and when they would like to go. My preference would be next spring some time - after the snow had melted but before the summer tourist season starts. I guess that makes it between about April and June. I am guessing that a trip will take about a week to allow for travel there and back and a few days laneing in between - it can be done in one day but two is more comfortable. Do we prefer to go over Easter/half term and take the spouse/kiddies too or avoid the hols and therefor get cheaper ferries and less crowded roads/campsiter/hotels? Do we prefer camping or hotel accomodation? I am fairly easy as there is no way I am taking the family!

Your thoughts please.

Chris

[blue disco]

Hi all,

New to the forum but have met some of you in wales when i joined Mo for a trip. He ha sgiven me the heads up the possible France trip so just to say that yep I would be interested in coming along, campings good for me but will go with the flow.

Cheers.