Rebuilding my 200tdi lightweight, 5 speed box, disc'd axles. Optio

[Duncan]

Hi all I'm planning some Mods to my Lightweight and want to talk through some options!

As she stands my lightweight is a 1975 s3 fitted with a 200tdi disco engine, parabolics with military shackles and pro-comps.

Gearbox

I'm planning on putting an r380 with an ashcroft short bellhousing on(to keep the gearlever as far forward as possible)

behind the 200tdi (in standard series position if at all possible)

or..

An auto-box as Iv just had both hips replaced so is honestly the wise choice but more work and less series parts.

Are auto boxes the same length?

Axles

From cruising this site I'm now thinking about using Landcruiser 80 axles as reputedly strong, Disc brakes and Difflocks but Would this cause problems with MOT/V5 as not Landy parts? and whats the gearing ratio? also do they run single brake lines?

or

Disco 24 spline axles, easy and cheap to get by braking a vehicle, Disc brakes (I hear a 93 reg will fit 90 single line calipers?)

built for a heavier vehicle so that much stronger at least.

Also planning on fitting a roll hoop and rear bars that fits inside hardtop, New rear cross member possibly with a rear winch

So any advice or thoughts muchly appreciated

Cheers

Duncan

[Snagger]

I'm not sure, but I think the ZF is longer than the R380, so you'd have to move the engine forwards to fit it.

As for the axles, I don't know about the characteristics of the LC80 axles, but they won't affect the VIN as long as you have enough other original components. You've lost the engine point and will be losing the transmission's points whichever box you replace the standard unit with, but as long as you keep both the original steering and original suspension (you can replace the springs with new leaf springs, but they can't be replaced with a different type of suspension), then you'll have enough points to keep the VIN. Of course, the five points for the chassis depend on it being the original and unaltered chassis or a brand new chassis to original spec, but I don't think the DVLA will be too concerned about a few gearbox or engine mounts, only significant alterations.

[the real muddy90]

I believe the r380 & zf4hp22 (?) are the same length. Fit an auto to a 300 90 & the transfer box will be in the same place.

You'll want a 200 adapter plate though as the 200 engine has a diferent rear crank seal carrier to 300s, the box's are the same.

If you go for disco axles, they will take any single line brake caliper pre td5. I think I'm right in saying the bolt holes are all the same. Rear calipers are single line anyway.

[lrfarmer]

I believe the r380 & zf4hp22 (?) are the same length. Fit an auto to a 300 90 & the transfer box will be in the same place.

You'll want a 200 adapter plate though as the 200 engine has a diferent rear crank seal carrier to 300s, the box's are the same.

If you go for disco axles, they will take any single line brake caliper pre td5. I think I'm right in saying the bolt holes are all the same. Rear calipers are single line anyway.

the boxes are the same length but if duncan was getting an ashcroft short R380 the auto box would be longer so the r380 would be less work

i'd go for the disco axles and in the 6 years i've had my 90 i've only broken one CV(and that was trying to hand brake thro a 5 gate RTVing on grippy stoney ground).

[western]

I have seen a lightweight fitted with a Defender 200tdi & R380/LT230 combination, built a few years ago by Buryas Bridge Garage [bBG] near Penzance, it was a yellow station wagon built to order for a lady owner, looked a neat conversion, might be worth a e.mail to BBG.

[Les Henson]

Am I reading that right Ralph - a yellow LTWT station wagon?

Les.

[western]

Correct, R.A.F had these, fitted with a series 2 or 3 roof/side/rear door to make a station wagon, mainly for airfield use, looked a really smart job too, IIRC it was the NAS AA Yellow, similar to some of the NAS 90's

don;t think it was this vehicle, as I believe it was all one colour.

[Les Henson]

Thanks - I never knew they even existed.

Les.

[Duncan]

Good to know auto is the same length as manual and can position gear selector where I want as fly by wire i think?

Defender gearboxes appear to be the ones to go for as the bellhousing is shorter I hear this is due to the 5th gear being somehow different? but is a defender lt77 or r380 the same overall length as a discovery one? obviously the defender transferbox is lower geared?

Link to a defender lt77 for sale shows the short bellhousing and far forward gearstick. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-DEFENDER-200-TDI-LT77-MANUEL-GEAR-BOX-COMP-/180554359603?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a09e0e333

[Snagger]

Good to know auto is the same length as manual and can position gear selector where I want as fly by wire i think?

Defender gearboxes appear to be the ones to go for as the bellhousing is shorter I hear this is due to the 5th gear being somehow different? but is a defender lt77 or r380 the same overall length as a discovery one? obviously the defender transferbox is lower geared?

Link to a defender lt77 for sale shows the short bellhousing and far forward gearstick. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-DEFENDER-200-TDI-LT77-MANUEL-GEAR-BOX-COMP-/180554359603?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a09e0e333

No Duncan. You said you were planning to use an R380 with a short nose LT77 bell housing and input shaft, making it the same length as an LT77 from a Defender. Discovery and RRC LT77s were the same length as all R380s (the 300Tdi Defender engine was much further forward than on previous Defenders). The ZF is about the same length as the R380 or the long nosed LT77 and can't be shortened.

You will also need the torque converter and housing to replace the flywheel and flywheel housing.

[jericho]

Axles

Disco 24 spline axles, easy and cheap to get by braking a vehicle, Disc brakes (I hear a 93 reg will fit 90 single line calipers?)

built for a heavier vehicle so that much stronger at least.

I think all 24 spline axles run single line brakes,at least all 300tdis that I have seen do,whether disco,defender,or rrc.

[Duncan]

If I go with Disco axles then I'll buy and break a vehicle so can check for single brake lines, More important is the whole steering arm hitting the O/S leaf spring as I wouldn't be happy to raise the spring mounts as lowers the front end. Might look into RR axles a bit more as I think steering arm is higher.

Thanks Snagger I finally understand the different lengths now! A defender lt77 might be the chosen unit as saves a few hundred quid on a 'stumpy' kit and to fit the kit you need to track down the right suffixed box. depends what I find around really.

[4X4byV8]

where are you based duncan? Ive got a 'M' reg discovery had front impact so its been sitting in the field waiting to be broken up for the last 4years. Its complete all bits are spare except for the gearbox we want to keep as its a recon unit 20k ago.

[Snagger]

There are differences between various axles, but these are limited to the shafts, CV joint, drive flange, hub depth and brakes. The axle cases and swivels are the same, the only variation being the side on which the drag link steering arm is sited and the fact that they rationalised the TD5s and Tdcis by using ambidextrous axles so they could use less moulds and fit any axle to any vehicle regardless of whether it is lhd or rhd. The track rod arms are the same on all coiler varieties.

[ToyRoverlander]

There are differences between various axles, but these are limited to the shafts, CV joint, drive flange, hub depth and brakes. The axle cases and swivels are the same, the only variation being the side on which the drag link steering arm is sited and the fact that they rationalised the TD5s and Tdcis by using ambidextrous axles so they could use less moulds and fit any axle to any vehicle regardless of whether it is lhd or rhd. The track rod arms are the same on all coiler varieties.

LC80 axles are cool!

There very wide though. Have huge brakes and standard factory lockers. CV's are huge, so are axles and diffs. Very strong axles. Ratio is either 4.1 or 3.73, auto being 4.1, manual 3.73.

No issues with the tierod wanting to go through the leaf springs as it sits a lot higher than on a LR axle. It actually sits behind the axle instead of below it where it's vulnerable.

Single brake lines on the front. I'm using a RR master, but a Disco master would be easier as they're setup for single lines.

Drilling and turning the diff flanges to accept the LR driveshaft is a breeze.

[dr pepper]

I have a 300tdi on disco axles.

The 300 tdi fits onto the series box with its original bellhousing, I drilled and tapped 2 of the holes in the engine flywheel case, the case had moldings there allreasy, and I drilled a couple of holes in the bottom of the series box.

Point being if both the 300tdi and 200tdi flywheel cases fit the series box, theres a good chance that you'll be able to get the r380 off a 300tdi to fit a 200tdi engine.

[Duncan]

4x4byV8 - PM waiting for ya.

I saw a good condition defender lt77 sell nearby for £50! bargains can be had on the bay! The price of making an ashcroft stumpy+r380 is hard to justify as I don't think I'll really need the extra strength with what I want my vehicle to do, and can always upgrade later if it turns out I do!

ToyRoverlander It's your truck that made me want LC80 axles! They no doubt are overkill for my Lightweight but do sort the tierod problem! And for all the effort of retro fitting to leafs would be great to gain lockers! If I can find any that is!

[ToyRoverlander]

ToyRoverlander It's your truck that made me want LC80 axles! They no doubt are overkill for my Lightweight but do sort the tierod problem! And for all the effort of retro fitting to leafs would be great to gain lockers! If I can find any that is!

They're around...

One way of getting your hands on them is buying a damaged, scruffy 80Series. Pull the axles and sell the rest. The motor and gearbox are worth a lot of money.

[Andy]

Point being if both the 300tdi and 200tdi flywheel cases fit the series box, theres a good chance that you'll be able to get the r380 off a 300tdi to fit a 200tdi engine.

Well I put a R380 on the back of a 200Tdi in a disco a few years ago, can't remember which bellhousing I used though. It all fitted bar one or two studs from memory.