Parabolic Springs

[Chris x]

Hello!

I have now nearly finished my Series 3 off roader.

The front leaf sping is snapped so before I put it in for its MOT I want to get myself some Parabolics.

Its main purpose is for off roading, so I was wondering what Parabolics give the most lift and articulation.

I will also be changing the shocks, so any advice on that side is good.

Could you guys give me your opinions on your own or if you can reccomend me some. Links would be good.

Dont really have a budget!

Thanks in advance!

[Chris x]

Also, from reading through various other posts, I assume 2leafs front and back would be best?!

[FridgeFreezer]

If you lift it too much you'll eat propshafts/UJ's.

[West4x4]

i have chris perfect 2 leaf front and rears with extended shackles, very high and very flexy but then you get back line and prop issues

[ToyRoverlander]

i have chris perfect 2 leaf front and rears with extended shackles, very high and very flexy but then you get back line and prop issues

You won;t get much lift with parabolics, at least not with the ones from paddocks. A mate of mine put them on his 109 2years ago or something and the front end actually went down 2" ! Those 2leaf fronts are not able to cope with the weight.

If your's is an 88" with nothing in it, and will not cary any loads, than 2 leaf rears could be fine. If I were you I'd order the 4leaf rear springs, they have bolted clamps so are really easy to take apart and take leafs out, or back in if needed. 2leaf spring doesn't need clamps due to the military wrap.

I've got 2.5 leaf rear springs up front without clamps and no issues.

To get some more flex from the front-end cheaply, re-do the mounts and fit some longer shocks. U-joints might not like that though so a centre limit strap may be needed.

[TheRecklessEngineer]

You won;t get much lift with parabolics, at least not with the ones from paddocks. A mate of mine put them on his 109 2years ago or something and the front end actually went down 2" ! Those 2leaf fronts are not able to cope with the weight.

I've had exactly the opposite experience. Mine sat about 2" higher with Paddocks parabolics. I had to take the front propshaft off to get them on.

I haven't driven it yet, so I can't say if it will stay that high or not (I hope it'll sag back to standard height...)

[Chris x]

Not too bothered about changing UJ's. Can mod the prop if it becomes to bigger issue.

What are paddocks leaf springs like for flex? Or any other make?

[Jon White]

2 leaf fronts 3 leaf rears on mine. Mine are allmakes ones and Ive been very happy with them. They lifted it 2" or so.

Jon

[ToyRoverlander]

What are paddocks leaf springs like for flex? Or any other make?

They do fine, with proper length shocks.

Expect, what mine shows here from the front end, on the rear of an 88 with 14" travel shocks(springs closer together, I've got rear springs up front, uses full shock travel).

[Chris x]

2 leaf fronts 3 leaf rears on mine. Mine are allmakes ones and Ive been very happy with them. They lifted it 2" or so.

Jon

Good to know. Will take a look now!

[Chris x]

They do fine, with proper length shocks.

Expect, what mine shows here from the front end, on the rear of an 88 with 14" travel shocks(springs closer together, I've got rear springs up front, uses full shock travel).

I want your Land Rover!

I think im set for paddocks leaf spings. Will get 2 leaf front and 4 leaf front. Will try removing the two rear leafs as suggested on here and give it a shot.

When you say 'proper' lengh shocks, do you mean standard or extra long like thes : http://www.paddockspares.com/pp/SERIES/Suspension/Shock_absorber-SWB_front_%28Pro_Comp_ES3000_extra_long%29.html

What differences are there with longer shocks? Does it sit higher, flexier e.t.c?

Also, where do you guys get your 1tonne shackles from? Cant find them anywhere!

Thanks for all the help so far!

[ToyRoverlander]

I want your Land Rover!

When you say 'proper' lengh shocks, do you mean standard or extra long like thes : http://www.paddockspares.com/pp/SERIES/Suspension/Shock_absorber-SWB_front_%28Pro_Comp_ES3000_extra_long%29.html

What differences are there with longer shocks? Does it sit higher, flexier e.t.c?

Also, where do you guys get your 1tonne shackles from? Cant find them anywhere!

Thanks for all the help so far!

Too bad, you can't have it

With proper lenght shocks I mean nothing that can be bought from Paddocks Those are still too short. I bought some Bilstein 5125Series shocks with 14" travel online from the US. They're a very good long shock and about $70 each.

They're not the cheapest but they offer a really good ride!

You need long shocks to get the most out of your springs. Leaf springs CAN have decent flex, it's just that most of the time the shock limits the amount of travel that the spring is capable off. Hence longer shocks, and new shock mounts obviously. Ride height will be dictated by the springs and their mountings/shackle length, has got nothing to do with shocks

The collapsed lenght of the Bilsteins is more than the extended length of the Series shocks .

I got my one-ton shackles from paddocks btw.

Oh, just one disadvantage. Flex like this EATS bushes for breakfast, lunch and dinner and spits them out just as quickly ...

When you buy those springs, first thing you need to do is rip out those rubber bushes ase they are absolute rubbish! and replace with polybushes. Polybushes will get wrecked too but they last a heck of a lot longer than the rubber ones (which lasted for 1 offroad outing...) and are way easier to replace. That said, the genuine polybushes at the shackle end of the front springs are already wrecked (within a couple of months)......

[Jon White]

4 leaf rears are too hard for an 88" - they're designed for 109's. You want 3 leaf rears on an 88"

Jon

[ToyRoverlander]

4 leaf rears are too hard for an 88" - they're designed for 109's. You want 3 leaf rears on an 88"

Jon

I think im set for paddocks leaf spings. Will get 2 leaf front and 4 leaf rear. Will try removing the two rear leafs as suggested on here and give it a shot.

The 4leaf rears have bolted clamps unlike the wraparound clamps on the 3leaf springs.

[Chris x]

The 4leaf rears have bolted clamps unlike the wraparound clamps on the 3leaf springs.

If thats the case then I will order the 4 leaf.

So do you think the extra long shocks that I linked to you above will be better than normal ones?

So basically:

2 Leaf fronts

4 Leaf Rears (remove 2 leafs)

Extended shocks all round?

1 Tonne shackles (could you give me a link to them on Paddocks site? I cant seem to find them?

Poly bushes all round? Brit (****) Part yellows ok on paddocks site?

Do thinks like U bolts, nuts e.t.c come with them or would I need to order seperate ones?

Really do appreciate this help!

[Bowie69]

Don't put britpart anything, let alone bushes near your land rover, unless you want it to have a paddy and break for you immediately.

For bushes, go SuperPro.

[ToyRoverlander]

If thats the case then I will order the 4 leaf.

So do you think the extra long shocks that I linked to you above will be better than normal ones?

So basically:

2 Leaf fronts

4 Leaf Rears (remove 2 leafs)

Extended shocks all round?

1 Tonne shackles (could you give me a link to them on Paddocks site? I cant seem to find them?

Poly bushes all round? Brit (****) Part yellows ok on paddocks site?

Do thinks like U bolts, nuts e.t.c come with them or would I need to order seperate ones?

Really do appreciate this help!

No, those shocks are too short! You want LONG travel shocks with eyes on both ends. I can only speak for the Bilsteins, they're awesome! Onroad handling is superb,even for a SOA setup like mine. It costs a bit more but they're good quality shocks unlike the pro-comps. (have a look on www.bilsteinus.com and look up the 5125Series).

Yes. You want to add longer brake lines too and think through their mounting. You don't want to able to play guitar on them .

If you go ahead with this, be prepared for new driveshafts too as the 50mm slipjoints in the standard driveshafts is WAY too short.

Yes, you get U-bolts with the springs.

http://www.paddockspares.com/pp/SERIES/Suspension/Shackle_plate_kit_-_1ton_front.html

http://www.paddockspares.com/pp/SERIES/Suspension/Shackle_plate_kit_-_1ton_rear.html

Don't put britpart anything, let alone bushes near your land rover, unless you want it to have a paddy and break for you immediately.

For bushes, go SuperPro.

Don't wine. Those bushes are gonna get eaten real quick, whether they are expensive or cheap doesn't matter! The shackle end of the front springs (on mine with the rear springs up front) are praticularly bad for this! So you might as well get cheap ones.

[Snagger]

As always. quality costs. There are all sorts of varying reports from users of Paddocks (most of their stock range is Britpart, which should be avoided at all costs), and British Springs. Rocky Mountain get consistently good reports with only a few xeptions, and TIConsole/Heystee seems to have the best quality, but at a price.

I have TICs on my 109, and apart from the rear springs having been from an early batch with faulty (slightly oversized) bushes which caused spring eye problems - a fault which was discovered and learnt from, and in my case rectified without any wrangling - they have been excellent: with over 15 years and about 170,000 miles of use, they still have not lost any of their camber and cope admirably with the extra weight my 109 has gained.

TICs are fiendishly expensive, though, and I think when they do eventually need replacement (they show no signs of it yet), I will go with Rocky Mountain.

[Chris x]

No, those shocks are too short! You want LONG travel shocks with eyes on both ends. I can only speak for the Bilsteins, they're awesome! Onroad handling is superb,even for a SOA setup like mine. It costs a bit more but they're good quality shocks unlike the pro-comps. (have a look on www.bilsteinus.com and look up the 5125Series).

Yes. You want to add longer brake lines too and think through their mounting. You don't want to able to play guitar on them .

If you go ahead with this, be prepared for new driveshafts too as the 50mm slipjoints in the standard driveshafts is WAY too short.

Yes, you get U-bolts with the springs.

http://www.paddockspares.com/pp/SERIES/Suspension/Shackle_plate_kit_-_1ton_front.html

http://www.paddockspares.com/pp/SERIES/Suspension/Shackle_plate_kit_-_1ton_rear.html

Don't wine. Those bushes are gonna get eaten real quick, whether they are expensive or cheap doesn't matter! The shackle end of the front springs (on mine with the rear springs up front) are praticularly bad for this! So you might as well get cheap ones.

Perfect. Thanks for the links! Guessing I will need two of each?

What I mean is will that setup above be ok for a stardard chassis setup?

I have been building this thing for nearly a year now, I need to get it on the road! Wouldnt mind doing what you have done next year!

[Bowie69]

Don't wine. Those bushes are gonna get eaten real quick, whether they are expensive or cheap doesn't matter! The shackle end of the front springs (on mine with the rear springs up front) are praticularly bad for this! So you might as well get cheap ones.

Not whining, speaking from experience, the Britpart yellow or Deflex orange bushes are made of a far more brittle material with a much larger crystaline structure and a rough surface finish than SuperPro. This is the reason they fail so quickly, and SuperPro last longer.

If they get eaten with the suspension setup above, then they get eaten, but even if they cost 50% more I bet you will get more than 50% more life out of them compared to Britpart/Deflex bushes, meaning they are better value in the end.

With the SuperPro or equivalent, make sure you use plenty of the lube included with them, it makes a big difference.

The other option which should really be considered, is to re-engineer the suspension so that it doesn't destroy bushes every time you take it out, something like revolver shackles would reduce the stress on the bushes by a large amount, and don't have to be costly, they can be DIY if you want. Something like this, just a quick google for them:

http://www.difflock.com/buyersguide/newproducts/gone2far/Spring-Mount1.jpg

Chris, with anything like the above setup, or even just paras and 1-ton shackles you will end up having to notch the cross member too, moreso with the large amount of droop you seem to be being driven towards.

Rolling back a bit, is fabricating new shock mounts within your capabilitiess/design/comfort zone? Is it even something you want to do? Do you want to chop your cross member about to acheive max droop, or is it a lovely new galvanised one that you really can't bring youself to do it to....?

You've not really said much about specs or use other than 'mostly off-road', which can mean a lot of different things.... A bit more info I think is required before you spend £1K and another month trying to get it all to work together properly.

[Chris x]

Don't put britpart anything, let alone bushes near your land rover, unless you want it to have a paddy and break for you immediately.

For bushes, go SuperPro.

I agree. Will deffo look around for another make!

[FridgeFreezer]

You can't fit much longer shocks (like ToyRoverLander) without extending the shock mounts (like ToyRoverLander), for something you can just buy & fit then standard or slightly extended shocks such as ProComps is about the only option, this was my truck on TIC 4-leaf rears & 2-leaf fronts with standard ProComps:

[ToyRoverlander]

Not whining, speaking from experience, the Britpart yellow or Deflex orange bushes are made of a far more brittle material with a much larger crystaline structure and a rough surface finish than SuperPro. This is the reason they fail so quickly, and SuperPro last longer.

Fair enough. Who sells those Superpro bushes? Wouldn't mind trying out a set. Got a link?

If they get eaten with the suspension setup above, then they get eaten, but even if they cost 50% more I bet you will get more than 50% more life out of them compared to Britpart/Deflex bushes, meaning they are better value in the end.

I don't know. It could be interesting if your talking about a lifespan of 2years instead of 1, but unfortunately it's more like a lifespan of a few monhts (or even weeks) like in my case. The edges of the bushes get ripped apart and both halves get pushed out of the springeyes (even with thick washers between bush and shackle).

The other option which should really be considered, is to re-engineer the suspension so that it doesn't destroy bushes every time you take it out, something like revolver shackles would reduce the stress on the bushes by a large amount, and don't have to be costly, they can be DIY if you want. Something like this, just a quick google for them:

http://www.difflock.com/buyersguide/newproducts/gone2far/Spring-Mount1.jpg

No way I would use revolver shackles, that thing you link too would be a way better solution. But I like the torsion bar effect of twisting leaf springs, it adds stability.

[ToyRoverlander]

Are those rear springs reverse arching?

[FridgeFreezer]

Are those rear springs reverse arching?

Probably

These days I'm on ~14" travel procomps (now very knakcered) and can give them a reasonable workout, the springs are the same set of TIC's and have lasted really well. I have the front spring mounts pictured above, although I very rarely remember to unlock them when offroad. Here's a shot from when I did remember, you can see them working:

There are two spacer tubes and two M10 bolts per mount to lock them flat when on the road.

I agree with the comments above - if your car eats bushes then you may need to revise the geometry or design of the setup as there should be no reason for it to do so. I used coiler shock turrets on the front, with chassis mounts cut from a RR chassis, which means you can fit a much longer shock in. Bushes seem to last pretty well, mine are only cheap Deflex ones but I haven't had one die yet, except from the front spring bushes which worked their way out over the lip of the shackle - a couple of washers has sorted that.

Strangely enough, my suspension is pretty much standard (or as close as can be with the different axles) - the springs & mounts & shackles are all in the stock places, and the shocks are longer but otherwise they're on standard Volvo/LR mounts, or copies of.