mick the digger! Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Following on from the thread I posted in the international forum looking for some feed back on the goodwinch two speed hydraulic winch I ordered it and shoud have it next week..so better crack on with mounting the pump and valve etc! My hydraulic pump, valve and drive coupling arrived from flowfit the other day so lots to be getting on with! the coupling i got is used for electric motors, but I will be driving it direct form the crank via the jaw coupling. the motor side of the coupling is for a motor with a 38mm shaft with a 10mm key, anyone know where to a shaft this size, 70mm long would do as it will be welded to a flange plate that will bolt to the crank pully. I'm nearly sure ive seen lengths of keyed shaft for sale somewhere? or a old knackered motor would do and cut the shaft off it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vit rich Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 My local bearing company sells all of this stuff, pullys, key material, keyed shafts. Could be worth looking around your way? Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick the digger! Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 couldnt track down ready keyed shaft other than in the U S of A....so stopped being lazy and fired up the mill and made my own.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Nice job , but it looks like you've got no clutch in there ? I engage and disengage mine as required. I don't see the point in running the pump for half the day whilst it's not needed (apart from warming up fluid) and only causing wear n tear. Likewise if you have a hose burst or something it's easy to isolate. Regards Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick the digger! Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Nice job , but it looks like you've got no clutch in there ? I engage and disengage mine as required. I don't see the point in running the pump for half the day whilst it's not needed (apart from warming up fluid) and only causing wear n tear. Likewise if you have a hose burst or something it's easy to isolate. Regards Gordon your right gordon , no clutch I havnt really the room for one. most if not all plant run the pumps full time, we have machines with 5000+ hours on original pumps. Im using a p to t valve so when the winch is not in use it shouldnt draw much heat into the oil, just keep it warm for when it is needed, cold oil is no good. But you are right if you burst a hose it is handy to isolate it, worst case I can pull the four bolts from the pump and withdraw it from the coupling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl hurst Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 You are more than likely to over rev the pump so it wont last that long, Yes machines run pumps continuous for long hours but they are not trying to nail it up some steep muddy bank on a challenge event, In my opinion a dog clutch is essential to diss engage drive to pump and a pump draws a fair amount of power from engine so by diss engaging you will have more power when you don't need to use winch, Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 My clutch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Hunter Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Zim, It's a lovely photo, very pretty, and in beautiful focus, but being very new to hydraulic systems - I'm overhauling a recently bought, very old Kubota tractor, with loading bucket and backhoe - what parts in your photo should I be appreciating? Some labels and arrows would spare the incogniscenti, such as me, the embarrassment of not knowing what we're looking at!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl hurst Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Zim, It's a lovely photo, very pretty, and in beautiful focus, but being very new to hydraulic systems - I'm overhauling a recently bought, very old Kubota tractor, with loading bucket and backhoe - what parts in your photo should I be appreciating? Some labels and arrows would spare the incogniscenti, such as me, the embarrassment of not knowing what we're looking at!! Mike From engine, This is a Dog clutch conected direct to crank and then the pump. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick the digger! Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 You are more than likely to over rev the pump so it wont last that long, Yes machines run pumps continuous for long hours but they are not trying to nail it up some steep muddy bank on a challenge event, good point on over revving the pump, but we are talking about a vehicle that if it got used half a dozen times a year that would be it, ive read some stuff from the US where guys are running similar gear pumps at 5k rpm for long periods of time with no issue. We used to have a sprinter tipper with a belt driven pump via an electromagnetic clutch, the lads used to leave it on the whole time, had it years and we never had an issue with a pump. In my opinion a dog clutch is essential to diss engage drive to pump and a pump draws a fair amount of power from engine so by diss engaging you will have more power when you don't need to use winch, I dont see how when the system is going to vent and not making any pressure you will loose any noticeable power, if this was the case how would a machine fitted with a hydraulic pump idle when started from cold if it was under load? the engine only comes under load when you pull lever? Again referring back to the sprinter we had if you switched on the pump with it idling you would barely notice the revs dipping it was similar to switching on full headlights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl hurst Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 good point on over revving the pump, but we are talking about a vehicle that if it got used half a dozen times a year that would be it, ive read some stuff from the US where guys are running similar gear pumps at 5k rpm for long periods of time with no issue. We used to have a sprinter tipper with a belt driven pump via an electromagnetic clutch, the lads used to leave it on the whole time, had it years and we never had an issue with a pump. I don't see how when the system is going to vent and not making any pressure you will loose any noticeable power, if this was the case how would a machine fitted with a hydraulic pump idle when started from cold if it was under load? the engine only comes under load when you pull lever? Again referring back to the sprinter we had if you switched on the pump with it idling you would barely notice the revs dipping it was similar to switching on full headlights. My comments are based on what i have learned from being involved in development and use of hydraulic winchs and pump set ups in various set ups on more than 1 vehicle so all issues i have mentioned are fact based from my own experience, I also have been involved with them for many seasons of challenge events so have seen them triumph and fail so know there weakness's, You mention about running a pump at 5K continuous, not a prob if you gear it down so it will never max out on revs, let us know the outcome of your set up after a good work out on a challenge event, Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Check out something called "cavitation" it's roughly where an over revved pump forms pockets of air that will lead to premature failure, roughly....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Zim, fancy posting up specs of clutch and pump and where/what they're off/from? Also some nice pictures of how everything is mounted and stuff would be perfect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Zim, fancy posting up specs of clutch and pump and where/what they're off/from? Also some nice pictures of how everything is mounted and stuff would be perfect! The bracket you use to mount your pump depends on how good your fabrication skills are and what steel you've got knocking around mine has two legs which go back to the engine mount brakcets. Clutch - something like this, depending on your pump - http://www.flowfitonline.com/cgi-bin/sh000002.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww.flowfitonline.com%2f&WD=clutch&SHOP=%20&PN=Mechanical_Clutches.html%23a25_20_2d_2030103#a25_20_2d_2030103 Remember when changing direction of the pump you have to swap the high pressure seal around inside. Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 might be worth fitting a bypass around the pump with some sort of control valve? that way no need for mechanical dog clutches, you can simply use an air operated control valve when you wish to use the pump to operate the winch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick the digger! Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 let us know the outcome of your set up after a good work out on a challenge event, Carl. Will do carl, thanks for your input. By the sounds of it I might end up having to fit a clutch to the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Clutch - something like this, depending on your pump - http://www.flowfitonline.com/cgi-bin/sh000002.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww.flowfitonline.com%2f&WD=clutch&SHOP=%20&PN=Mechanical_Clutches.html%23a25_20_2d_2030103#a25_20_2d_2030103 Gordon Very usefull link Gordon, thanks a lot! They could supply exactly what I was needed for the Milemarker install on the P38a. Greetz, Filip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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