rekab69 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hi All, I have just heard of a case where a chap in his Defender towing a 3.5ton trailer, which (get this!) was empty.... Has been nicked for not having a tachograph as the combined vehicle + trailer payload would take him over the allowed 3.5ton... So he has in fact been nicked for a crime he hasn"t comitted yet if at all...!!?? I have a 2.8 ton trailer so I too can be nicked... Amazed.... Dave.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Tachograph is only required for businesses isn't it? Don't think it covers personal use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimaquinas Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 hi if it is used for trade /business then it needs a tacho but if it is own use private then you dont need 1 hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wack61 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 He has committed an offence if he was towing a trailer for business use, if your defender is rated at 3050kg gvw as mine is you can tow a trailer with a MAM of 449 kg as the combined weight is then under 3500kg If your defender is 3499kg GVW you can't tow anything without a tachograph None of this applies for personal use, the definition is Hire or Reward, as VOSA will say it's up to a court to define reward,something as simple as a rosette won at a gymkhana could be defined as a reward, or a cup at a motor racing event It gets better than just that though, if you have a van which has a towing capacity of 2800kg and you hitch an empty 3500kg capacity trailer even with a tachograph you're committing an offence because the trailer is over the allowed towing capacity of the van even though it's empty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 It gets better than just that though, if you have a van which has a towing capacity of 2800kg and you hitch an empty 3500kg capacity trailer even with a tachograph you're committing an offence because the trailer is over the allowed towing capacity of the van even though it's empty I've been looking for the legislation which says this for some months and so far no-one I have challenged has been able to quote where it is in the Regulations. I'm now of the view that it's an urban myth, although I understand that it is true for medium and heavy goods vehicle categories. Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I've been looking for the legislation which says this for some months and so far no-one I have challenged has been able to quote where it is in the Regulations. I'm now of the view that it's an urban myth, although I understand that it is true for medium and heavy goods vehicle categories. Nick. I read it recently, i'll try and dig it out.......!! Tacho only required if for 'reward'... ie, payment, and therefore business use....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I read it recently, i'll try and dig it out.......!! Great - I'd really like to finally nail this! Tacho only required if for 'reward'... ie, payment, and therefore business use....... There is an exception for farmers carrying farm related goods within a certain distance (50km?) of their farm, and you also don't need a tacho if the transport is incidental to the main business - i.e. a jobbing builder who tows a trailer with a mini-digger on it to their job site does not need a tacho, but if the digger is hired from a hire shop who deliver it as part of the hire service, the delivery driver does need a tacho. Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekab69 Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Now I'm really confussed... Tacho only required if for 'reward'... ie, payment, and therefore business use....... ! (ii)You also don't need a tacho if the transport is incidental to the main business - i.e. a jobbing builder who tows a trailer with a mini-digger on it to their job site does not need a tacho. !!? A builder who works for no reward, I have such a list of jobs for him.... dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyna VT Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hi folks, this my first post here so be gentle! The important wording in the legislation is 'for hire or reward'. I work in the agricultural machinery business where a lot of sales reps will have Navaras, Discos, et al. to tow trailers with their demo machines onboard. If the Maximum Authorised Mass of the vehicle/trailer combo exceeds 3500KG and the vehicle is used for hire/reward then a tacho is required - even if the trailer is empty. Remember that MAM refers to what can be legally carried not what is actually being carried at the time. Things get more complicated when it comes to drivers' hours as in theory you should put your card (or disc) in the tacho at the beginning of the day you intend to tow, even if no trailer is on when you leave home. So, if your work requires you to tow a trailer then the vehicle needs a tacho. There are dispensations for 'domestic' uses which will give you a get-out for some types of business, such as agriculture. I am wondering if the example that was mentioned previously was the one seen on TV recently (Motorway Cops I think?) where a guy in a tidy Defender 90 was towing a trailer with a Range Rover on board. He was at work therefore should have had a tacho fitted, he didn't therefore an offence was committed. Might not seem fair but that's the way it is. We tow our horse trailer with our own horses on board, well in excess of a MAM of 3500Kg, but used for pleasure so no tacho necessary. If I were to move a friend's horse and she offers to pay, or even offers some diesel, that is in theory hire/reward so I should have a tacho. Try explaining that one in court! I'm sure this one will run and run... Cheers, Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M&S Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I spoke to a trailer/wagon driving instructor at VOSA a few months ago about all of this, and actually the weight thing is a mis-interpretation by the police. You can tow a trailer rated to carry 10 tonnes (or whatever, just an example) if it is empty AND weighs less (empty) than the vehicles maximum towing weight. I used an example, and asked "could I pick up an agricultural trailer with an unladen weight of 2000kgs, but a laden weight of 5000kgs using my Discovery" and his answer was "Yes, you could even put 1500kgs of stuff in it if you wanted". So long as a weigh bridge shows that your vehicles maximum towing weight has not been exceeded and the trailers laden weight has not been exceeded then it's all good. They did, however, accept that there was a lot of confusion at the roadside, and I was told to accept the ticket from the police officer/roadside checks at the time as there is no point arguing it at the roadside, and then appeal it later, with VOSA. This is useful, from the ntta website (note the blue box at the bottom right ): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat_J Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 S'ok for you oldies. I have to do a trailer test before I can put more than 750kgs on the back of mine. I think I would have a hard time to justify it. Although at least I know that whatever I'm doing i'll be in the wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekab69 Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm begining to see the wood for the trees.... Deny, deny, deny.... it's all for pleasure Officer... Jockey wheels dropping down or being left down when lent to a friend, missing the tow hitch when reversing, rubbish lighting boards packing even though you checked them before you set off, reversing trailers easy, easy, jack knifed, over taking....etc, etc. Yes, all for pleasure.... Oh hum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M&S Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 If you are towing your comp vehicle to a p&p site then that's for your own use so you are ok, no tachograph required. If you are towing a broken down vehicle on a trailer to you garage, where you will be repairing it as part of your business, then you'll need a tachograph. If I'm caught with a trailer full of wood which i am advertising for sale then I need a tachograph, but if it's for my own wood burner then I don't. If I want to take my mini-digger from my yard to a job, where I'll be using it, then returning back to the yard (with a 50km radius) then I don't. If I am towing the same digger to a job where it is to be hired out for use by someone else then I need a tachograph. It's all pretty simple really Of course, tachograph or no tachograph, if your lights aren't working, you've left a jockey wheel down, or jacknife, you're overloaded, haven't secured it correctly, speeding, have worn/damaged tyres, etc tec it then your gonna be in bother regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottinAZ Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 What is a tachograph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ady 1 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 What is a tachograph? hi there. it is a device that records drivers hours in hgv vehicles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 What is a tachograph? Used by Heavy frieght truck drivers & coach & van drivers throughout Europe to comply with drivers hours/breaks regulations, these guys used to have to record it all by hand in a log book, which was a legal document. there are 2 types, 1 records on a removable disc, which has to be retained for a certain period once complete & 2 is the newer digital,smart card version. more info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachograph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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