RearEngined Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I have added a winch (and second hook) as per safety requests but the question has arisen from a fellow Offroader who has suggested that i will soon crack out the welds on the two 6mm plates which have been attached to a 6mm 150 x 150 box section. I've said that what will more likely happen is the cheapie winch from China will break it's case etc before any welds are going to let go... What are your opinions, considering the 'truck' is not used competitively, or that winching will ever be done in 'anger'. The step forward of the winch is for the base mount of the main bash bar system and a forward section of the tabs are a tight sliding it onto it. Here's a picture: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Hello, that looks like the front of a Jeeeep no??? In my opinion, you might want to do a bit more welding, now you say you're not going to use it in "anger"? whats that mean? if you don't plug the thing in then I would say "yeah its fine" but if you are going to use it in ANY capacity you will need to put some small support gussets undr each overhanging bit of steel, I'd put some small traingles on the front and then on the back, as you have it presently it would probably work... but you run the risk of peeling the steel brackets off the chassis rail as the wire spools to one side of the drum, you get really uneven loadings on these winches and it skews the drum if your not carefull, (ask me how I know this!) they have to have a very rigid foundation. Maybe have a think where the loads are going to run in the structure, force times distance, etc. Forgive the rough sketch, but I was thinking of some extra support like this, hope this helps. the chineese style winches, they may not be gigglepin, but they do the job and can put up with fair hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Imagine being 50ft up a long near vertical pull, and the welds let go.... I'll bet you wished you'd done it properly then. What you should have at the very least is a large plate, the width of the chassis rails, bolted down through crush-tubed holes with an upstand on the front to take the fairlead, this adds a huge amount of strength to the mounting. Google 'winch plate' for ideas. What you have made there is not only not strong enough, but very very dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RearEngined Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Imagine being 50ft up a long near vertical pull, and the welds let go.... I'll bet you wished you'd done it properly then. What you should have at the very least is a large plate, the width of the chassis rails, bolted down through crush-tubed holes with an upstand on the front to take the fairlead, this adds a huge amount of strength to the mounting. Google 'winch plate' for ideas. What you have made there is not only not strong enough, but very very dangerous. Yes, this is the precise honest response i needed, so thank you. Back to the drawing board and i'll be buying a fist-full of cutoff wheels to remove those tabs to make way for a full plate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RearEngined Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Hello, that looks like the front of a Jeeeep no??? In my opinion, you might want to do a bit more welding, now you say you're not going to use it in "anger"? whats that mean? if you don't plug the thing in then I would say "yeah its fine" but if you are going to use it in ANY capacity you will need to put some small support gussets undr each overhanging bit of steel, I'd put some small traingles on the front and then on the back, as you have it presently it would probably work... but you run the risk of peeling the steel brackets off the chassis rail as the wire spools to one side of the drum, you get really uneven loadings on these winches and it skews the drum if your not carefull, (ask me how I know this!) they have to have a very rigid foundation. Maybe have a think where the loads are going to run in the structure, force times distance, etc. Forgive the rough sketch, but I was thinking of some extra support like this, hope this helps. the chineese style winches, they may not be gigglepin, but they do the job and can put up with fair hammer. Thanks for the advice. I'll be making a full review of things. Someplace i was given the completely wrong advice... A little about the machine: It is a jeep body but the rest is all RR with the V8 in the rear and the diffs flipped.... !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Phew, thought I might have upset you then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I agree that is nowhere near strong enough. You want it bolted to minimum 6mm plate covering the whole footprint of the winch. Something like this is a good starting point: http://www.4x4winches.com/images/pages/page_mounts/motherboard.jpg but may not fit the winch you want - this one is designed for a Milemarker. I use the Bikini mount (made by same place) which is based on this plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Whilst we are on the subject, the recovery points don't look quite up to the job, you could integrate mounting points into the full width winch plate which would be a lot stronger than the tabs welded onto the end of the box section. Imagine if you had an upward or downward force on the recovery hooks... the plate would just bend up and maybe snap off or best case is your recovery strop can't be removed from the hook... An upward force is quite common when pulling someone out of a bomb hole for instance... 6mm plate, IMHO is a bit overkill, 4 or 5mm design correctly with an upstand front and rear would be more than enough, seeing as you have a 6mm piece of box underneath it, which you can additionally brace/bolt it to on the trailing edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 YOu also have no-where to mount the fairlead............ you'll need to integrate that into the mount aswell............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Material thickness does not equal strength, you could make it out of inch plate and it would still be weak because the forces on the winch are trying to peel the weld off, and there is a lot of leverage for it to do so. Maverick is right on the gusseting as one solution, I'd probably double up his picture like this as a minimum: The recovery points are also dangerous for similar reasons, the forces in a recovery will be trying to twist the mount around and/or peel it and it's got no support to resist that. I've never really liked the yank-style recovery hooks anyway, having anything in single-shear just doesn't seem like a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RearEngined Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 YOu also have no-where to mount the fairlead............ you'll need to integrate that into the mount aswell............. There's a full bash bar that has a 'foot' 65 x 65 slotted box section that sits down into that 150 x 150 step and bolts on. There are fairlead mount clearances in that which i will fettle once the winch is in its proper mounted SAFE place. This is (was) all fabricated by the previous owner but never completed. My main use for this road-legal machine is to access the local wild and desolate ocean beach for surf-cast fishing (my other hobby) which includes traveling over some pretty rough ground. Some of the sand dunes section (the 'Bombing Range' was once used just for that when New Zealand had an Airforce. Some days the Army closes the area for live firing training). The fishing is brilliant though. With the 3.9 V8 now in the rear on what is a shortened down Rangie chassis and running gear i really want to make sure things are 'right' because i certainly don't want them going wrong so far from help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RearEngined Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Material thickness does not equal strength, you could make it out of inch plate and it would still be weak because the forces on the winch are trying to peel the weld off, and there is a lot of leverage for it to do so. Maverick is right on the gusseting as one solution, I'd probably double up his picture like this as a minimum: The recovery points are also dangerous for similar reasons, the forces in a recovery will be trying to twist the mount around and/or peel it and it's got no support to resist that. I've never really liked the yank-style recovery hooks anyway, having anything in single-shear just doesn't seem like a good idea. Hmmmm, i am starting to worry now (real worried) about that entire added-in 150 x 150 stepped box cross member. This has been welded into a cutdown (shortened) Rangie chassis. (The engine being moved to the rear meant the forward section of chassis where it originally 'lived' wasn't needed anymore). I'm wondering just how theoretical maximum loads from winching will be distributed and whether the entire 6mm thick 150mm x 150mm piece could ever effectively peal/break away from the chassis once the winch/recovering mounts are correctly made and correctly attached to this new cross-member. If the truck was a genuine competition winching truck it'd be a full review of the entire front cross-member (down to how it should be tied into the chassis) and i'd expect that Safety Scrutineers at any event would pick up on this very quickly and give me a short sharp shift). I've bought a machine full of someone else's 'designs' which has at least met the really stringent Complience Rules for low volume motor vehicles for New Zealand so it can at least be used on the highway. Thanks for everyone's input so far. As i've said, it all helps and i want to make certain what work i do is correct because one day the machine might belong to someone else and i don't them to have to mess around sorting other people's dangerous mistakes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Any chance of some pics of the whole truck......... i know it looks like a J**P, but it also looks kinda interesting............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RearEngined Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Any chance of some pics of the whole truck......... i know it looks like a J**P, but it also looks kinda interesting............ That's what my local LR and Rangie wrecker says, pity about the body! He was amazed at our first meeting with the huge amount of work that someone has put into it. I too still take my hat off to the builder, an ex-pat Brit whose now living in NZ. The body is the remains of a 1941 Willys and bit's of recovered Mahindra!!!.... (or is that where i should be washing my mouth out using such words here)? The engine pic is my work sorting out cooling and tidying up nightmares like leaking power-steering and blocked trans coolers. Here's some more pics... (apologies if they are displaying too large)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Looks like a lot of fun, also appears to have front fadius arms on the rear........... its not 4wheel steer aswell is it...........LOL!! Actually, looking closer, it appears to be two front halves of chassis joined together!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Nice looking truck. The deep dish rostyles look really nice, have they had the centers reversed or are they a wider rim recentered with the rostyle center Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RearEngined Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Looks like a lot of fun, also appears to have front fadius arms on the rear........... its not 4wheel steer aswell is it...........LOL!! Actually, looking closer, it appears to be two front halves of chassis joined together!!! The most basic description: entire axles flipped over (front steering 'kuckles' rotated 180 on end and remounted in newly drilled and tapped mounts). Flipped rear axle mounted to chassis using same system as front axle (turned round). Rangie fuel tank upfront and a big fat aftermarket alloy radiator. Part of the engine in the rear and putting it's weight across the rear axle goes a lot towards being so useful in sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Hunter Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 An interesting truck, and thread, but why have most of the photos on Photobucket been removed? A lot is lost without the photos. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RearEngined Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 An interesting truck, and thread, but why have most of the photos on Photobucket been removed? A lot is lost without the photos. Mike Yes! Hello Mike.... I have just been given a message from a very meaningful person that my Photobucket album is wide open revealing way too much info of a personal nature such as email, phone number contacts etc. I guess that's where i know more about playing around with engines and electronics than using websites. I'll work through fixing links in the next few minutes.. but as a Newbie to this Forum it 's starting to look like things are a bit of a lost cause now. SORRY FOLKS is all i can say... What i need is to access the previous posts and replace the links with new 'uns which i guess only a Moderator can do... I feel a right plonker... I know i should really post them directly here but as a Newbie i don't want to go filling your servers up with rubbish!I've never had trouble with Photobucket until now as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RearEngined Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Things now fixed i hope... Here's a not a very good video... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pecker Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Have to sat what a really nice truck, just wish I had the time, money and patience to do something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastw77 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Hmmmm, i am starting to worry now (real worried) about that entire added-in 150 x 150 stepped box cross member. This has been welded into a cutdown (shortened) Rangie chassis. (The engine being moved to the rear meant the forward section of chassis where it originally 'lived' wasn't needed anymore). I'm wondering just how theoretical maximum loads from winching will be distributed and whether the entire 6mm thick 150mm x 150mm piece could ever effectively peal/break away from the chassis once the winch/recovering mounts are correctly made and correctly attached to this new cross-member. If the truck was a genuine competition winching truck it'd be a full review of the entire front cross-member (down to how it should be tied into the chassis) and i'd expect that Safety Scrutineers at any event would pick up on this very quickly and give me a short sharp shift). I've bought a machine full of someone else's 'designs' which has at least met the really stringent Complience Rules for low volume motor vehicles for New Zealand so it can at least be used on the highway. Thanks for everyone's input so far. As i've said, it all helps and i want to make certain what work i do is correct because one day the machine might belong to someone else and i don't them to have to mess around sorting other people's dangerous mistakes... I am not really understanding what you are worried about here. Are you worried that the cross member that you have welded the mountings for you winch is going to peel off? If you are don't worry as it isn't. The problems the other guys have been pointing out have all bee to to shear stresses where the welding is only at one end of the bracket and there could be lateral movement on the welds. As the cross member is welded at both ends the shear forces are low. Imagine if the cross member was only welded at one end, it would peel off pretty easily relatively speaking. But as it is welded at both ends it's good and strong!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.