Muttland Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Hi to all. This is the question ( to be or not to be): Unimog 404 PA axels in a SIII w/tdi300 and Defender R380+230 1.44, Is it possible to do? I do not Know the 404 axel relations yet. ¿Unimog 404 axles ratio: 7.56:1. or 3.54:1 (either 25:7 or 39:11) In the crown and pinion, 2.13:1 (32:15)?????' overdrive is necessary??? is 44" good W. ????? Exist an example in UK? , and info please Thanks to all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobotMan Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Anything is possible! I've looked at my SII 88" and my 404 'Mog side by side and thought "No, don't even think about it " to myself. Rear prop, Diff nose length and tyre size mean you'll need a 109". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Anything is possible, Mog axles have their own set of problems. Having a search round here for "unimog" should give you lots of info, or swing on by http://forum.flyingspanners.net/ where there's been a few threads about axle swaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2hse Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Mog Rover in Oz has been a successful adaptation. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbadger Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 You don't say whether you're looking at a 88" or 109", but generally: The front prop shaft length will end up very short and you'll need some lift and engine sump modifications to clear the diff. On an 88" the rear prop will probably end too short without lengthening the wheelbase (looking at Mog Rover it's probably wheelbase stretched front and rear) The Mog 404 diff ratio is 3.54:1, the overall ratio with portal drop is 7.56:1. This is Diff ratio of 3.54:1 x portal ratio of 2.13:1 = 7.56:1 Tyre size wise 44" tyres are probably starting to get too big, in terms of weight and size. The standard Mog axles are factory rated to do 90kph (55mph) on 39" tyres, which would work out to about 100kph (62mph) on 44" tyres. 100kph with a 1.44 transfer box would be about 4400 rpm in 5th gear, or SCREAMING your 300tdi. A change to different ratio transfer box would make things better, 1.222 (giving 3750rpm) or even better would be 1.00 (giving 3080rpm) What suspension are you planning, as the standard leaves will wrap badly with portals and 44" tyres? If you want to go for it then I reckon you should look at either modified axles - like Soren Frimodt on here, or Mog9 axles from the 'states to over come some of the clearance and prop length issues. OR look at lengthening the wheel base. Either way you should look into disc brake conversions, off set conversions etc. I would also say that on a LR in the UK the max tyre size should be 39" to 42" to avoid size and weight issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttland Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 Thanks to all for the interesting replays, pic, and comments. ¡¡¡¡¡The result w/be a MONSTER LR !!!! The possible modification will be do in a 109 SIII, but today is only a proyect hard to do. In Montevideo appears a couple of 404 axels and the idea works in my head. In Canada I found this interesting page: http://www.exaxt.ca/faq.asp#4 They make a lot of modifications nedded to adapt these Axels. But it is very far and expensive. Only ideas and info are catched there. The suspentions w/ be whith leaves like this: To use well in the Serie level (16" or similar ) is nedded to use a disco brakes sistem to reduce the dimentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Putting the leafs on top of the axles is unnecessary with portals IMHO, you don't need any more height and it will make spring wrap problems even worse than they would be with the springs underneath. You will need to fit better steering, at the minimum a standard PAS setup but if you're running big (40"+) tyres you will probably want hydro assist. You will want a 1.003:1 ratio LT230 if you intend to go anywhere on the road, big tyres help raise the gearing a bit. There is also the question of whether the 300TDi has the guts to haul the truck around off-road - Mog axles & big tyres will add nearly a ton to the weight of the car, and although the gearing may be low enough it might not make for a very usable vehicle. If you aren't 100% set on Mog axles, Volvo ones are a much nicer fit under a Series, they weigh about half as much, the gear ratios can be better (5.99:1 overall ratio) and they don't need pinion conversions etc. - LR propshafts bolt on directly. Of course I am a little biased what with having Volvos myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2hse Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Comments about Mog Rover are pretty much there. Suspension is not "original", nor is the engine or anything else. The body was, sort of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Have a read up on my thread here: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=64168 And generally I would say that you'll be ill advised to get into a project like this half-arsed. Consider every issue beforehand, and either link up the series or make some seriously robust anti-wrap setup. These things have immense power on your suspension system! And keep it looow for God's sake, your whole driveline will be happier and it'll crawl like a crawl thing with the low center of gravity. The ninety in my thread ended up weighing 2150kgs all finished up and with 40"s, although without winches or anything, but with a four-point rollcage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 That MogRover is seriously awesome ! Just another idea..... wouldn't it be easier to rebody a mog? And perhaps make some suspension changesor whatever else tickles your fancy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbadger Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Fitting the Mogs to a 109 would be relatively simple if you have sufficient fabrication skills. The basic mods to the axles are front offset swap, pinion conversions and high steer arms. Then you'd have to mount them and consider a disc brake conversion. My brother-in-law's 110 ended up way too heavy, way too high and undergeared for TAT where he competed. If you want a rock crawler or trials car then great. Soren's conversion was much more successful as an all-round machine, the keys I think are that it's much lower, lighter and runs smaller tyres. As fridge says, consider the whole conversion, how it will be achieved and what you want do with it before you start. The ausies and Americans show that Mog axles can be engineered to work extremely well on small 4x4s, it's just a case of deciding if it's the right direction for your intended use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 For those interested the Mogrover was built on a RRC chassis, and Sam stretched the wheelbase to 112" AFAIK... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2hse Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 For those interested the Mogrover was built on a RRC chassis, and Sam stretched the wheelbase to 112" AFAIK... Thanks. Yes. That is interesting to know. I can't remember what powered it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 There was a 302 Windsor under the bonnet. I don't know what happened since it went in someone else's hands though. It has a place in my hall of fame, I listed the basic specs... Mogrover (I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2hse Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 And four wheel steering (was it hydraulic?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I think so, but I lost the track then, and didn't find out more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttland Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 Mi 109 has now a Scout-Bronco Saginaw power steering. What do you think about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brownlie Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 What about adapting Land Cruiser axles instead ? strong axles with electric lockers. Easier to adapt ratios to something usable and the yanks run them on HUGE tyres for rock crawling. Mog axles are HEAVY expensive and drum brakes on the 404s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbadger Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 What about adapting Land Cruiser axles instead ? strong axles with electric lockers. Easier to adapt ratios to something usable and the yanks run them on HUGE tyres for rock crawling. Mog axles are HEAVY expensive and drum brakes on the 404s. Landcruiser axles are certainly an excellent choice, on my two LC axled projects they proved easy to fit and performed superbly. However, depending on use the CVs can suffer even on 37" tyres, above that you'd need Longfield shafts and CVs or similar. The Elocker mechainism can also be troublesom if used too much in the wet. Extensive upgardes would be required for 40"+ tyres. Volvo portals are the other main choice, as mentioned earlier in this thread. Again very easy to adapt, lockers as standard, but as per the Mog 404's they come with drum brakes as standard. Again, as mentioned earlier, it's really a case of what you want to do with the finished truck. If you want a behemoth on 44" tyres that will climb over or plough through anything then Mogs are the obvious choice. If you want a nibble capable truck on 37" tyres that can be driven regularily on the road, yet still be good in the rough stuff then Landcruiser should be the natural choice. Volvo's probably cover all options, but the cost is higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 The issue with rebodying a Mog is that the chassis are designed to twist - look at any of the truck-trial videos on Youtube, they all have roll cages which are hinged to a central point so the chassis can twist. I don't see LR bodywork standing up to that. The Mog is forward-control too. From what I've seen of Mogs off-road, Mogs as a whole vehicle are more of the same - heavy and slow. Beautifully engineered (Dirtydiesel will ramble for hours about Mog/Merc engineering ), but remember you're looking at a vehicle which is a very old road-going tractor. PAS wise, it's very hard to say what will & won't work as it is being used in a one-off application. It comes down to how you build the rest of the car really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobotMan Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 I weighed my 'Mog last week. 2340Kg including fuel and mud! Plenty of challenge trucks tipping that end of the scale. The cab, also central and swivel mounted, comes off with just three bolts. The pedals and steering stay with chassis. They should be relatively easy to move back to a regular driving position. Depends on how much you think it will be better than the vehicle you started with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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