istruggle2gate11 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Yeah Jules think portals on a Tomcat would be fine and sweet. and as astal says i think it ill just be people who are jeaous Its been done by a friend, have a word with DirtyDiesel, he may have some pics of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 I have nothing against Maxidrive products. They are nicely made and use high quality materials, butthe following is a comparison between Volvo and Maxidrive portal options Volvos, complete with factory standard difflocks were available EX Malaysia for around AUS$4500 a set landed. Properly done ,Landrovers can be engineered and registered with Volvo axles fitted. If you start off with standard Rover type axles, fit Maxidrive difflocks, reinforced Banjo housings and Maxidrive Portals you will be out of pocket by around AUS$17000. You will have a vehicles that is not registerable in Australia. The ratio of MD portals is only 1.3:1, so the fragile CV joint is only effectively 30% stronger than before, compared to the Volvo at over 100% stronger(ratio 2.19:1). Volvo swivel housings are designed to cope with the significantly higher loads that portals impose on swivel pins. Rover swivel housings and pins, particularly the smaller ones on coil sprung models are not. The diameter of Volvo final axle shaft is 46 mm. The diameter of MD portal final axle shaft is 31mm. The MD is fully floating though, which offsets the difference to a degree. MD portal conversions retain disc brakes. Volvos have standard drum brakes and a disc conversion costs $$$. The 2 gear Volvo portals would have less rolling resistance than the 4 gear Maxidrive units. The MD portals will bolt straight on , whereas Volvos require a bit of (about $1000) worth of fabrication to fit up. Bill. so what you are saying is that Volvos axels can be used under landys in Aus but Maxi Drive ones can't Surley they (in the eyes of the goverment) are the same . They are both portals. The Maxi drive ones are a better fitment than the Volvo. As they are just bolt on. No facbrication Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 ( I know a extream example ) Yeah, I know, but seriously - but no 18" tyres and it's really no bigger - look at RPR's series landy for example. Go on Jules - portal that tomcat. Join the club and make them cry. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Its been done by a friend, have a word with DirtyDiesel, he may have some pics of it. This one... dirtydiesel put them under, mogs with g wagon discs and hubs very sexy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 This one... Thats the fellowl, must be nearly a year since that was done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 UK competitors don't feel the compitions will run side by side with portal trucks for long as there too big for the uk events other parts of europe they have the space and left over ex army trucks to build stuff from. Im guessing thats based on thier first hand experience of portal'd trucks? If I went portal I would not get value for money in the uk and would want to compete futher afield and then all the hidden cost come in. if you did go with maxidrive Jules then just do what Jerzy does - take em off when you dont need them, then you can compete with the left over ex army cars abroad and still play with the landrovers back home? best of both worlds? Bill - Disc kit is: four new stub axles cast in 4340 with disc lands on them, 4 rotors, 4 four pot calipers and four hangers for Volvo, with the provision to run landy stud pattern or 5 on 5 1/2 with pre-drilled CTIS ports is £1500 its a lot of metal for the money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 if you did go with maxidrive Jules then just do what Jerzy does - take em off when you dont need them, then you can compete with the left over ex army cars abroad and still play with the landrovers back home? best of both worlds? Jules Now these an idea i would not of thought of. If they ban portals from one comp just take them off and put them back on for the next race. Easy to do with Maxi Drive portals not easy to do with Mog or Volvo ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 so what you are saying is that Volvos axels can be used under landys in Aus but Maxi Drive ones can'tSurley they (in the eyes of the goverment) are the same . They are both portals. The Maxi drive ones are a better fitment than the Volvo. As they are just bolt on. No facbrication The Volvo was designed as a portal axle. LandRover axles were not. You would be hard pressed to find any engineer that would sign his name to a modification that imposed as much stress on the swivel balls, attaching bolts, swivel housing and swivel pins and bearings as would a 1 ft (30cm) larger diameter tyre. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 on the width side - use 16" tyres and come in at the same width as a defender? 15's cant be backspaced enough on a volvo drum mind you if a tree gets in the way of Petal we tend to go round it/flatten it/delete as applicable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Everyone knows portals are lame - I dunno why I bothered. I could bolt a rover front axle straight back on. The rear would take a little more work, as I no longer have an A-frame. Maybe I should investigate the options NOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Bill - Disc kit is: four new stub axles cast in 4340 with disc lands on them, 4 rotors, 4 four pot calipers and four hangers for Volvo, with the provision to run landy stud pattern or 5 on 5 1/2 with pre-drilled CTIS ports is £1500 its a lot of metal for the money I agree Jez, that is excellant value. I was just trying to give a fair pro's and cons comparison of the two options. If I had left out the brake comparison it would have looked like unfair bias. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Christ thats a small trailer It's an artic trailer!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 good point Andy, its a two hour job (5 bolts at the front, two and a balljoint at the back, 3 brake lines, 2 vacuum pipes, two prop shafts to undo, and then wheel the next set in) to put Petal back onto Beefed up Rover axles, if only I could afford them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Im guessing thats based on thier first hand experience of portal'd trucks? if you did go with maxidrive Jules then just do what Jerzy does - take em off when you dont need them, then you can compete with the left over ex army cars abroad and still play with the landrovers back home? best of both worlds? Bill - Disc kit is: four new stub axles cast in 4340 with disc lands on them, 4 rotors, 4 four pot calipers and four hangers for Volvo, with the provision to run landy stud pattern or 5 on 5 1/2 with pre-drilled CTIS ports is £1500 its a lot of metal for the money I was asking some well known and liked competiters (that use this forum) if they felt the uk seen justified portals they both say no not yet and the AWDC would split that classes up... Second bit, I understand the price but I I'm lost with the rest sorry is the 4340 the whole axle or stubs sorry I'm a bit slow on the whole axle thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Everyone knows portals are lame - I dunno why I bothered.I could bolt a rover front axle straight back on. The rear would take a little more work, as I no longer have an A-frame. Maybe I should investigate the options NOT All that work to build so where are you going to compete it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 All that work to build so where are you going to compete it If you mean complete it - if the plans go the way I want them - I'll be at the Malvern show with it If you mean enter a competition - I dunno - I'm in no rush, for me the proof is in the building, I'm not that competitive. But comps will come, maybe later this year, but there is no point booking anything up, until I've shaken it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 I'm not that competitive. I think some of have seen video evidence to support that..... "Do something. Go to the top. Go to the f***ing top" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 I was asking some well known and liked competiters (that use this forum) if they felt the uk seen justified portals they both say no not yet and the AWDC would split that classes up...Second bit, I understand the price but I I'm lost with the rest sorry is the 4340 the whole axle or stubs sorry I'm a bit slow on the whole axle thing the 4340 is a completely new stub axle (the output side of the portal box) I'm not sure competitions in the UK do justify portals but then how many people can justify anything that they enjoy out of interest what was the concensus of justifiable competition spec? I need to build a car for the mrs to use for UK stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPR Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Hello all, A couple of points. I have Volvo C303s on my SIII. I don't compete in anything - although I would if we had some of the UK type events over here on the East Coast. If you want a stronger set of axles that give you excellent gearing and the ability to run large aggressive tyres, I do not think there is a better modification you could do for a Series Land Rover. It isn't "bolt on" but its pretty straightforward. The other seemingly good option for a Series Land Rover is Jim Young's Toy axle conversion for Series Land Rovers. I have also just completed the Volvo disc brake conversion from Portal-Tek that I believe Jez is referring to. It will be easier for those of you that follow for the suffering that I went through.... The kit is well designed and beefy. The Tonka stops very well Standard Volvo wheels - we found out after installing the kit - do not clear the disc brakes. As a result, I have had to have wheels made that will probably widen the stance up to 2" either side and will mean that the somewhat "factory" look it had on standard Volvo wheels is gone. I would have preferred to keep it the way it was, but it does substantially add to at least percieved lateral stability. In my view a C303 conversion is the best money you could spend to make a Series Land Rover into a "competitive" level vehicle. But that isn't necessarily the best place to start? I am out of my depth when it comes to Defenders. There seem to be more options available and much more complex considerations involved. One option that hasn't been discussed is Portal-Tek's own custom portal axles. While based loosely on C303 design, they are what the Americans call "beef". I believe they use a Ford 9" center and as they are designed for rock-crawling, they will be very strong. Jez may know more. They can be made to whatever width, diff offset, wheel stud pattern etc. I have had mixed success with Portal-Tek but they are clearly good engineers, they are honest, and they have good product. I think portals are great. There are a lot of other options for Defenders but C303's are pretty cost effective. Whatever you do, enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Hello all, I have had to have wheels made that will probably widen the stance up to 2" either side and will mean that the somewhat "factory" look it had on standard Volvo wheels is gone. I would have preferred to keep it the way it was, but it does substantially add to at least percieved lateral stability. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are only a handful of Volvo axle vehicles in OZ, but unfortunately we have a 1'' per side restriction on track width increaseto keep things legal, which a couple have taken advantage of to fit beadlocks, which happen to be illegal. Bill . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 The new stubs reduce the track width by 1" overall if that helps ? still think your Series looks cool as a cool thing - very sweet RPR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 All that work to build so where are you going to compete it How about: The three peaks, midsummer madness, argyl forest challenge, awdc challenge series, midland of road club challenge series, the muddy truckers even challenge south west are now letting portals compete. In fact i think that brian hartly is the only event oganiser that has upheld the supposed portal ban. So when i've finshed my G the only event on the calender that i won't be able to do is the bulldog which to be fair i am not all that worried about anyway, seeing as the kerbs in asda pose a similar challenge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 How about:The three peaks, midsummer madness, argyl forest challenge, awdc challenge series, midland of road club challenge series, the muddy truckers even challenge south west are now letting portals compete. In fact i think that brian hartly is the only event oganiser that has upheld the supposed portal ban. So when i've finshed my G the only event on the calender that i won't be able to do is the bulldog which to be fair i am not all that worried about anyway, seeing as the kerbs in asda pose a similar challenge So the field is still open to portal trucks 'Jez' my tomcat is about to have the axles from my 90 0ffered up this weekend and the engine and box tril fitted before the chassie and frame is painted. I take it the stub is adapted to fit LR or axle visversa or do I need new axles or can I re-enforce the 130 front axle and disco rear that I already have. Stunning are a race orientated garage so beefing stuff up is not new to them. I take it my 4.75 diffs will become redundent and I will need a much higher ratio of (you did tel me but I have forgotten) I don't want to cut about the chassie I have too much as its all going to eat into the minimal budget I do have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 'Jules', here's the options if you want portals 1) Buy a pair of purpose built axles from a left over army truck 2) Buy a set of Maxidrive ends, then reinforce a rover axle housing to take them and still end up limited as to what tyres you can run if you go for option 1 then you have three further choices (there are others but for expediency here's arguably the most suitable) i) 404 Unimog, ask the experts or if you want the facts talk to Dan ii) 303 Volvo, once again lots of choice as to who you ask iii) Bespoke Portal Tek Generation 3 axles, rated to 500hp plus and 44" plus, any width you like, ford 9", Rover, or Toyota Diff, 300m halfshafts more bling than any one human is capable of looking at in a single glance without going blind If you want to put disc brakes onto a C303 axle then you can do it the Finnish/Russian way, look at ORD or Petrisimmolen or buy a set of these This is a stub axle, its the output shaft from the lower section of a 303 axle, except this is a new design to bring the WMS inboard by 1/2" per side, its cast in 4340 and designed to accept our CTIS kit, The new stubs are cast with a Landrover stud pattern and a 5 on 5 1/2 stud pattern, so your wheel choice is greater, if you want to retain the Volvo 8 stud pattern then an adaptor is also available. The new stubs take either "wavey" or conventional vented discs, the kit also includes calipers and hangers. what are you doing for a steering box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 D2 box What adaption are needed to the chassie for the Volvo axels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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