Ben Spray Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Hi All I know this has been covered but I thought I had it straight what I was planning to do but Im now somewhat confused..... I have an ex mod 90 from around 1986 on an E plate but the VIN number year code is "A" so not sure if its perhaps earlier, which has the HD rear axle option which is I believe means 24 spline shafts (same as V8 90 shafts?) and the 24 spline 4 pin dff.... ok so far After talking to Dave Ashcroft a while ago now, I have bought a 200tdi Discovery axle with the mushroom type ie large headed 1 piece shafts (minus diff and calipers)... which in theory would allow me to fit my internals and the Ashcroft 5806M drive flanges... However Im wondering if this is the best way to go as it means having different flanges front and rear, so Ive read: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=14815&hl=%2Bimperial+%2Bmetric+%2Baxle+%2Bconversion+%2Brear&fromsearch=1 and http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=64570&st=0&p=557540&hl=+imperial%20+axle%20+hubs&fromsearch=1entry557540 (amongst others) and from what I can make out I could get a set of front hubs/and stub shafts etc which I assume are the wide type? (off an old 90 like mine ie pre-defender?) and bolt onto the Discovery casing allowing me to use the standard 5806 drive flanges front and rear (which I would prefer as I can just keep one spare then and use standard parts for now to save a bit of money - although I will upgrade at a later date) where I have got confused is around oil seal interference with some half shafts and whether the half shafts would have enough drive/surface area in the diff and various other things like that, so I just really want a shopping list of bits that I can buy, bolt together and it will work...! I'm also looking at getting metric rear calipers as per later Defenders/300tdi discos etc and having the axle case helicoiled (the metric calipers are cheaper for genuine parts and I can get the helicoiling done and the calipers for less than a pair of imperial calipers) unless anyone thinks this would be a bad idea? I'm starting to wonder if I should have gone for a metric casing but not sure if that would have really helped me much as then I would still have had to change the stubs/hubs etc anyway but would have saved the helicoiling? At this stage I basically just want to end up with a "fairly" strong disc braked axle built out of standard parts to keep costs down, and use my current V8 90 shafts and diff - which will allow me at a later date to upgrade things like the drive flanges (ie when I can afford to do the front and rear together etc) So what do I need and does anyone have the parts kicking around Cheers Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I don't think that your diff will be 24 spline if it is a 86 vintage. It may be 4 pin, but 24 spline only came on the scene in 1992/3 ish. Have you pulled a shaft as it is the only way to be certain how many splines you have at the diff end? I would also have thought that a disco axle would be metric?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 Hi yep pulled a shaft a while back and 24 splines on the inner/diff end... Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 and Disco only went metric sometime about 93/94 I think, easiest way Ive found is if the caliper bolts are 6 sided they are imperial and 12 sided are the metric M12 bolts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 This also confused me though, both axle casings have the 2 different length of studs on the diff mounting flange which I thought was imperial? so my current axle has an imperial diff but metric stubs etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 PO been swapping things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Both my 90's had 24 spline 4 pin differentials fitted in the back axle from the factory, one is 1987 and the other is 1988, both also had drum brakes. All V8 90's had this and stronger half shafts (not sure how much stronger!), V8 90 half shafts can be made to fit a later axle, by (if memory serves me right) machining 11mm from the outer end and remachining a new circlip groove which I have done for spare on my existing disc braked axle (1993 discovery) Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 so your saying you have 24spline drum braked military axles? are you SURE they're 24spline?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 As mentioned by landrovernuts as far as I know its standard fitment on V8 90s and military HD spec 90s (mine was a 2.5 NAD but still HD spec GVM on the vin plate being more than a standard 90) - so yes Im sure as mentioned above I have pulled a shaft out and its 24 spline on the diff end. I dont want to be machining things to fit, Im sure it should be possible to use standard parts on the Discovery axle to get back to having the standard 5806 drive flanges - but perhaps it is easier to just buy the 5806M flanges from Ashcrofts and be done with it!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 If you look at the parts manual, the length of studs on the diff flange is not an indicator of anything as there where 2 types, long and short. As far as I can make reference too, so i stand to be corrected, but I belive that all diff mounting studs are imperial?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 I'm pretty certain you are right on the thread, but there are 2 types of diff case imperial and metric, from what I understand the ones with a different thickness around the mouting face are imperial and the ones where the mountiing area is the same thickness all the way round and therefor needs long studs all the way round is metric (but still imperial threads on teh mouting studs) - I just thiought the 90 would have a metric diff - obviously not though.... Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I can confirm they are 24 spline and will happily take photos of the half shafts out of my 1988 axle when I get home if it helps? They are readily accessible, ie sitting on the workshop floor! Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I'm pretty certain you are right on the thread, but there are 2 types of diff case imperial and metric, from what I understand the ones with a different thickness around the mouting face are imperial and the ones where the mountiing area is the same thickness all the way round and therefor needs long studs all the way round is metric (but still imperial threads on teh mouting studs) - I just thiought the 90 would have a metric diff - obviously not though.... Cheers Ohhhh so you're talking about the actual flange on the diff as apposed to the flange on the axle case, got you... hmmm that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range Rover Blues Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 So what year did Metric diffs arrive then\\\\/ \i thought it was when the RRC EFi arrived, along with stronger propshafts and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 Anybody any ideas on the original questions? Im going to have to order parts soon (my Gwyn Lewis challange bits should be here tomorrow and I want to get on ) Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 ok so I've done a load more digging today and from what I can make out: As mentioned I have an early Disco rear axle (imperial) the caliper mounts on this axle will be helicoiled out to M12 to run later ie standard 90 rear calipers (no calipers at the mo and genuine 90 rears are a LOT less money than genuine early disco rears - I never run pattern brake calipers on any of my vehicles) I have as mentioned 24 spline "V8 90" rear shafts and 4 pin diff (metric or imperial who knows but the diff case suggsets imperial having a stepped flange) To make these fit together keeping the standard FRC5806 drive flanges I need 90/110/defender upto KA chassis number parts so: FRC4320 front stub axles FRC6139 front hubs FRC5806 drive flanges FRC2310 plate/mud shield? FTC3648 stub to axle gasket and all the bearings etc that go on an early 90 front axle I am assuming that the rear discs on the disco axle will work as they seem to be the same part number as a late 90 (FTC1381) I believe I leave out FRC3099 (half shaft oil seal - this seems to be behind a bush FRC4319 which I assume I leave in place?) to run oil in hubs and use RTC3511 hub oil seal to avoid leaks... So unless anyone thinks this seems wrong does anyone have a pair of early 90/110 front hubs/stubs or a complete axle minus diff, shafts and calipers? close to Norfolk or able to courier would be v handy! Cheers Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Yes you will want to leave the bush in the stub axle, its what locates the CV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 cv? driveshaft I guess you mean? I've ordered all the calipers and bits so just need the hubs and stubs now: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=72558 Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Sorry, not sure why I had the front axle in my head! but yes, must be for the location of the halfshaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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