discomikey Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 so my brakes got somewhat lacking a few weeks ago in OEY, so i thought it needed fixing as its unsafe to drive. inspected the system, the rear wheel cylinders were gone, the front shoes needed replacing and the hub oil seal was leaking on the front. i thought great, ill fix it then not too hard. replaced the bits with brand new (delphi) stuff and all new hub gaskets all round. still no brakes after ages of bleeding. so i thought must be the master now. replace the master. (non servo) and a couple of new pipes on it. done all connections up tight and spent well over an hour bleeding to no effect. made sure the connection was tight between the reservoir and the master so it cant draw in air there. when you pump the brakes, the fluid level goes down, bubbles come up as if its getting rid of an airlock, then as soon as you stop pumping, the fluid comes back up and the brakes hit the floor again, i cant get a solid pedal, cant even get anywhere near with multiple pumps. what could it be? no leaking pipes either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 You've adjusted the snail cams I assume? Tried raising the front of the truck and re-bleeding? IIRC there is a specific model which is a right pain to get the air out of the system on, and often requires raising the front until the m/c is level... Tried a pressure bleeder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 got it on the Uni ramp and done everything adjusted them all up. after id replaced everything wheel end of the system after a few pumps it would pull up well(ish) and dead straight then went to it other day and could pump as many times as i liked and nothing would happen full stop, as if someone had pulled the connection off the master. i thought master was the only thing left to replace and had these problems before and it was the master. not tried raising the front of the vehicle, i think the master is level where it is. i have a pressure bleed system and was thinking that next, only problem is its in derbyshire, im in shropshire and my only transport has 0% braking effort. starting to Really miss Brian now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I now bleed my brakes with the wheels cylinders clamped closed, easy with single cylinder system, just pop the shoes out and use a G clamp. With twin cylinders I put a strap around the shoes and pull them in tight, all adjusters backed right off. since doing it this way I've had no problems bleeding brakes. Are you loosing fluid? When you can get a pedal, does it creep to the floor when you keep the pressure on? Sure sign of M/C failure if it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 im not losing fluid,, and i dont really get what you would call a pedal at all. if you get resistiance, and hold it on (most ive had is an inch off the floor) it doesent creep down, only when you let off the pedal does it dissapate all pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 hmm..thinking.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Whip the front drums off and check the cylinders? They may have failed due to the rebleeding procedure...? Master cylinder push rod look OK? Is the cylinder returning OK when you let off the pedal? I think you can see this if you pull the rubber back with the inspection panel removed from the pedal assembly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
task Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 What happens if you crack a bleed nipple and apply the pedal? My Series 3 bleed procedure involves a milk bottle and a length of tube, I watch for the bubbles to stop and then know the air is out. Do you get fluid through all the nipples? When you replaces the slave cylinders were they like-for-like? no increase in capacity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 when bleeding, if the pedal is applied a lot of foamy airy fluid comes out. like fore like delphi lockheed cylinders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
task Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 when bleeding, if the pedal is applied a lot of foamy airy fluid comes out. Well, that sounds a little wrong. Either there is air in the system or you're pulling air in. Is the fluid reservoir remote or sat on top? Could be a dodgy joint pulling air in. Far more likely is that you've still got air in the system. Start from the shortest run and bleed to the longest (front N/S, front O/S, rear N/S, rear O/S from memory) and keep going till no air or foam comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 its a remote reservoir, spent ages making sure the connections are 100% tight to the master. im sure its got to be drawing in air, but i havent a clue where. no leaks in the system under pressure.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Brake-bleeding tip: if you're suffering with "trapped wind" do this. Pump the pedal like mad until it goes hard. Push it down, then wedge it down with a piece of timber between the pedal and the seat-box. Leave for 24 hours. Then do a thorough bleeding. Under sustained pressure for a day, trapped air will dissolve into brake-fluid. Then you bleed-out the aerated fluid. Trust me - it works! --Tanuki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 You are firmly closing the bleed nipple at the end of each down-stroke on the pedal, aren't you? Many bleeding hoses have non-return valves that fool the mechanic into thinking the nipple can be left open while pumping the pedal up and down, but these hoses rarely seal correctly and air is also usually sucked in through the threads of the nipple on the pedal up-stroke, so bleeding is ineffective. You need to use a pressure bleeder or have someone else help you with pedal bleeding, and you need to get clear, (completely) bubble-free fluid emerging from the nipples. You also need to check that clear stream is sustained, not momentary, by seeing a flow for at least five seconds or five pedal pumps without a single bubble to make sure the full line and cylinder have been cleared of all air. Remember that sequence is important - make sure that you bleed each cylinder in the correct order, which as a rule of thumb starts with the longest line and ends with the shortest, but check your manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 yes firmly closing the bleed nipple, i know the procedure and how to do it, changed plenty of brake components and master cylinders before, never had this problem though. its still not any better. the pressure bleeder i brought back from home with me should do the job, ecept none of the caps fit onto my reservoir so i cant use it. manually bleeding is proven to not work after hours of trying and im really getting Mildly miffed off with it now. ive missed every single off road event here because of it. i cant get home and back, and to be honest i now really hate this truck because its just not useable. i know once ive fixed everything it will be a nice little sereis to sell on but i cant sell it with no brakes and i cant use it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I can sympathise with your frustration! Since you have a new master cylinder, you can use one of the caps for the pressure bleeder - you just need to drill the centre to take the fitting from the kit's cap. Do you have a dual line system? The PDWA valve can cause bleeding problems, I'm told, but I don't know exactly what or how to get around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 remove it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 single line braking system and a remote reservoir, i.e. no spare cap, i also thought of drilling through it then replacing it but the caps too thick for the connector on the bleeding kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 get a britpart replacement one then......bound to be as thick as tin foil!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty43 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I once spent two days trying to bleed the brakes on my other half's mini to no avail using the two man method. 5 minutes with a pressure bleeder and they were fine so I'd be tempted to take it to a garage and get them to do it. If pressure bleeding isn't possible then you should be able to find someone with a vacuum bleeder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 i can do pressure bleeding myself if only i can get the right cap for the reservoir and the pressure bleeding kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Buy a giant syringe & suck the fluid from the nipples if you can't make the pressure bleeder kit fit. It's how I do bikes these days & makes the job dead easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 well today i decided i would defeat this problem once and for all so what i did was this: looked for a spare cap the same size in all the motor and farm supplies shops around here, and in the engineering dept. not a single one. so thats pressure bleeding out the question triied manually bleeding again. nothing tried pressure bleeding from the nipple end as suggested, all air out of system that could possibly be there. nothing tried swearing, kicking throwing toys out the pram, nothing so, basically i have a land rover which i now deem to be the biggest mistake/piece of sh*T i ever laid my eyes on. with still absolutely NO pedal whatsoever no matter how many times you pump it, no leaks in any of the pipes and all new cylinders including master. and i want to get back home tomorrow to get a good long weekend working on the series 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
task Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Do you feel any resistance on the pedal at all? Any difference on the pedal pressure between nipple open and nipple closed? No air bubbles when bleeding out the nipples as normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 no resistiance at all, not really any noticeable difference yes lots of air bubbles, but when i pressure bleeded it i got rid of all the bubbles as i accidentally left the pressure kit on and it blew air right through then rebled it and the fluid is all new too. no bubbles now but it still wont work im guessing to remove all drums again and check all new components for early(straight away) faliure. then check the new master too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
task Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 My first port of call would be the master, change that out and try it, then the slaves if that didn't work. A single faulty slave should still give some resistance on the pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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