Boris113 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 So it's got to the stage of the rebuild where I need to consider what type of recovery point I'm going to fit to the back of the 90. It will be used for play days and amateur challenges so must be strong enough for snatch recovery - the chassis is a brand new Richards job so no need to worry about chassis corrosion. I've ruled out Jate rings because they wedge up against the chassis and are under the vehicle, usually buried in the mud. I'll be fitting a detachable towbar, but am not sure on the final recovery point. Which ever option I choose, there will be a 9mm Nato hitch reinforcement plate on the back of the crossmember. So far I've got 3 different options, but if anyone has any suggestions they would be much appreciated. 1. Use the 4.5t shackle in the receiver - my concerns about this is the strength of the large removable pin (picture 1) 2. Weld a recovery loop to the towbar bracket (where the Nato hitch would go) - If I used this option, I would drill 2 large but snug holes through the bracket, put the ends of the loop through and weld both sides of the plate...and just in case anyone worries, I will use a proper ring not 3 core electrical wire! (picture 2) 3. Just bolt a Nato hitch on - I have one already but would like to keep the weight of the 90 down and it's in the way when I unload the 90 or people are getting in/out. Any advice is much appreciated Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westfield106 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 have got the same setup on my 90 and i fitted a rear recovery point from lrs http://www.lrsshop.co.uk/content/rear-recovery-hitch been fantastic so far - 6yrs on can post pic if reqd john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialbikejames Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Just get a new pin if you're worried. Dixon Bate adjustable two hitches just use a pair of pins to hold the hitch plate on, so try and get one of those (if they fit). No point having a 2'' receiver and a NATO hitch, you might as well just use a standard ball/pin hitch in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 what diameter is that lynch pin, doubt you'll wreck a 3/4 inch diameter pin.thats the normal pin size for 4.5tonne rated shackles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bob Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Whichever recovery point you go for, I'd not put it on with a hammer in your left hand judging from your photo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 None of your options would pass for scrutineering at an ALRC event, there are not supposed to be 'welded'..... i have seen a reciever type hich get past a scrutineer, but he insisted that the pin be swapped for an 8.8 rated bolt, so if you have concerns, do that, and maybe use a nyloc nut, it will mean taking a pair of spanners to it to fit/remove it, but thats small price to pay, plus it actually makes it less liekly for someone to nick the hitch, or even whatever trailer you might be towing!! People don;t seem to consider the option that theieves might actually unbolt a ball hitch to nick a trailer, everyone locks to trailer to the ball, and then has two bolts holding it on, anyone serious would just undo the bolts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 ...... People don;t seem to consider the option that theieves might actually unbolt a ball hitch to nick a trailer, everyone locks to trailer to the ball, and then has two bolts holding it on, anyone serious would just undo the bolts! People also don't consider the hitch being nicked, the slider portion of a dixon bate with a ball and pin hitch works out pretty expensive to replace ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris113 Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 Cheers for the replies guys, I was reluctant to use the Nato hitch and I shan't be doing MSA events so I will drop that option. With regards to the link posted by Westfield106, would that also fail under MSA scrutineering because the loop is welded to the backing plate? I think for now I may as well use the receiver hitch, it's got a 3/4" pin with no wear on it so should be ok. It saves me having to buy/weld a recovery loop also! As for security, I was planning to drill a second hole through the end of the lynch pin (beside the smaller spring pin) so that I can put a padlock through it, any trailers are always chained to the chassis when in use and to be on the safe side I will probably leave the drop-plate in the garage when not in use. The shackle attachment can live in the locked ammo box until required. I went to fit the towbar last night, and was rather suprised to see the 4 bolts that came with the NATO hitch are only 8.8 rated, should I use them with new nylocks or fit high tensile versions. The only other 2 bolts that hold the detachable bracket on are 2 x 17mm (M10?) that go through the anti-rollbar mounts. Does this seem strong enough? Many thanks, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 I've git a similar receiver hitch on the 90, my recovery eye is a warn one, excellent quality, I use a bolt instead of a quick release pin tho, fit two reasons, firstly it didn't come with a pin and secondly, it's not going to wear the hole on the towbar mount Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 8.8 rated bolts are the absolute minimum for any tow or recovery attachment, all normal car ball hitches & brackets are 8,8 rated. you could use items 1,2,3,4 in http://www.numcat.ru/landrover/p/31/52784/ any tow fitting will have welding on it somewhere, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eds Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 My Dixon Bates Slider only has one pin to hold it on, is it a fake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 My Dixon Bates Slider only has one pin to hold it on, is it a fake? Probably not, there are two types. A single pin and a double pin, I think the load ratings are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 The 'loop' looks all wrong to me: the edges of the holes in the plate will put nicks in the loop and these will become stress-raisers. Then something will go "Ping!" at the most inconvenient time. Sharp edges are your enemy in any and all high-load situations. I'd look at using proper industrial/commercial rings and lifting shackles (the sort of things used on cranes). And if fitting anything through a rear crossmember with bolts, it's always advised to install 'crush-tubes' otherwise when you wind the bolts up to a sensible torque-level you'll just end up pulling the two plates of the crossmember together. --Tanuki "He would say that, wouldn't he?" -Christine Keiller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 My Dixon Bates Slider only has one pin to hold it on, is it a fake? mine is a single pin for the slider too, it doesn't have a different rating to the 2 pin variant, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 mine is a single pin for the slider too, it doesn't have a different rating to the 2 pin variant, I thought the 2 pin variant of the slider was rated at 5 ton and the single pin at 3.5 ton, I can't check at the moment as www.dixonbate.co.uk has a problem at the mo. I'm aware you can't tow 5 ton with a standard Defender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Thought the 2 pin version was from another maker, I don't think they were around when my 110 was new. I don't tow anything heavier the 3.5t anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris113 Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 Cheers for the advice guys I removed the NATO hitch from a 90 the day after it was released from MOD so nothing had been tampered with Would it be a better idea to use high tensile? 12.9 maybe? The cast block that takes the shackle is Warn branded and the shackle is rated at 4.5t so I have no concerns about strength, I may substitute the lynch pin for another high tensile bolt though just to be on the safe side. Nothing will be on the receiver when it's not being used so wear as a result of vibration should be reduced but if it can be stopped totally that is preferable. There is a small m8 bolt that screws into the side of the bracket and pushes against the drop plate/recovery point which further reduces movement. Whichever recovery point you go for, I'd not put it on with a hammer in your left hand judging from your photo... Just noticed this...it was the door of the tractor! Had my hand on the door pillar, turned around to walk off and slammed the door...I just forgot to remove my hand! The 'loop' looks all wrong to me: the edges of the holes in the plate will put nicks in the loop and these will become stress-raisers. Then something will go "Ping!" at the most inconvenient time. Sharp edges are your enemy in any and all high-load situations. I'd look at using proper industrial/commercial rings and lifting shackles (the sort of things used on cranes). And if fitting anything through a rear crossmember with bolts, it's always advised to install 'crush-tubes' otherwise when you wind the bolts up to a sensible torque-level you'll just end up pulling the two plates of the crossmember together. --Tanuki "He would say that, wouldn't he?" -Christine Keiller. Sorry I wasn't sure, are you referring to the loop in the parts diagram that Western supplied or my picture using electrical cord? My chassis had crush tubes welded in by Richards during manufacture, there will also be a Nato backing plate approx 8mm x 7 inch x 4 inch on the inner face of the chassis so I'm hoping that should be ok, would you suggest something else or will I be ok? Thanks for all of the advice Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Thought the 2 pin version was from another maker, I don't think they were around when my 110 was new. I don't tow anything heavier the 3.5t anyway. Think witter do the 2 pin version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 http://www.witter-towbars.co.uk/product_review2.php?partNo=Z52A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Ah, same as the 2 pin one in my garage, just remembered that has a witer sticker on it. it came from another vehicle complete with slide plate & ball hitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Dixon bate do a 2 pin as well. http://www.dixonbate...sp?PartNo=68248 Although you'll have to wait till their site is back up or look in google cache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Dixon-Bate is now part of Bradley Doublelock, dixon-bates original website has closed down, that's why that link doesn't ork http://www.bradleydoublelock.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 When did that happen? It wasn't long ago that it worked. Cheers for the info Ralph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 in the last year oe 2 IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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