Lewis Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Bill, sounds like the bushing I'm using, mine came from chassis end of upper a frame on one of the drive axles of an 8x4 foden truck, they seem common to a lot of trucks on the uk roads First incarnation looked like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Crossmember pic, bush is in centre background of shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 The bush had done 1.6million km when it was removed. (A frame ball joint u/s and cheaper to replace a frame than put a repair kit in the ball joint). I don't expect it to wear any further in its present usage. At first I was concerned it may not be flexible enough, I considered drilling the rubber, but in use it allows current dampers fitted to be maxed out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I am using a 4"dia x2 1/2"wide Metalastic type trailing arm bushing from a Kenworth truck 6 rod rear suspension for my One Link. Set and forget ? Perish ? It is exactly the same bush from the One Link of my old 6x6 Landy from 35 years ago ! And it was second hand when I got it.! When I get around to modifying my present rear One Link, due to space constraints I will be replacing the Landcruiser radius arm bushing with a 'doctored' adjustable A frame ball joint off an old Rangey.I use them on the chassis end of my present 3 link front, and they are the dogs danglies. is the A frame ball joint strong enough, some different forces involved with a 1 link. I do like the lorry bush idea.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 Lewis, any articulation pics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 is the A frame ball joint strong enough, some different forces involved with a 1 link. I do like the lorry bush idea.. Nice looking job Mark. I think Fodens are now related to Kenworth and the bushing probably is the same. I mount mine 90 degrees to the way you have yours because I was also concerned that it may not have enough flexibility for articulation. A frame ball joints are certainly strong enough for the chassis end of my current 3 link. I mount them with the ball pin horizontal/longditudal so that the forces on the pin are mainly compressive/tensile as opposed to shear as in normal rear A frame application. I will mount the joint for the rear One Link the same way. For One Link,the shear force due to antisquat/dive is dependent on rear axle torque in ft lbs divided by link length in ft, so if the rear axle is delivering 8000lb ft of torque, and the one link is 4 ft long, the the shear force on the pin is around 2000lbs, probably a lot less than in its original designed application. Only the adjustable A frame joints are strong enough for this application. The ball pin pulls through on the later swaged over sealed joints. When I mention 'doctored' joint, I was referring to the liners for the ball. I use second hand joints with worn out plastic liners which I replaced originally with a thicker lead ones made from melted down wheel balance weights, but now think that what the hell! LandRover genuine tie rod ends have steel liners, so I am making steel ones for the ball pin also. I also modify the ball joint body to get a steeper maximum operating angle for my 3 links but probably don't deem it necessary for the One Link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Bill, when you say you mounted the bush 90degrees to how I have it I presume you have the centre rod in the bush perpendicular to the crossmember, is that correct? I was less worried about the bush restricting vertical movement than rotational, and mounting it vertical as you have would have the same rotational restrictions, I think. I'm not sure I'm getting my head around this properly, and even less sure that I'm describing it adequately Lewis, any articulation pics?Not on this device, sorry. The only pics I have showing flex are with a front wheel sat on a 205ltr barrel, which is easily achievable with stock land rover front suspension, it's just more balanced with the one link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Bill, when you say you mounted the bush 90degrees to how I have it I presume you have the centre rod in the bush perpendicular to the crossmember, is that correct?I was less worried about the bush restricting vertical movement than rotational, and mounting it vertical as you have would have the same rotational restrictions, I think. I'm not sure I'm getting my head around this properly, and even less sure that I'm describing it adequatelyNot on this device, sorry. The only pics I have showing flex are with a front wheel sat on a 205ltr barrel, which is easily achievable with stock land rover front suspension, it's just more balanced with the one link The only suitable bush ive seen is a d1 radius arm pin/bush (chassis end) it has unlimited flex (rotation) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Bill, when you say you mounted the bush 90degrees to how I have it I presume you have the centre rod in the bush perpendicular to the crossmember, is that correct? I was less worried about the bush restricting vertical movement than rotational, and mounting it vertical as you have would have the same rotational restrictions, I think. I'm not sure I'm getting my head around this properly, and even less sure that I'm describing it adequately Not on this device, sorry. The only pics I have showing flex are with a front wheel sat on a 205ltr barrel, which is easily achievable with stock land rover front suspension, it's just more balanced with the one link Sorry Lewis, I mistook your post for Disco Mark. Tthe centre rod, or the 1" diameter bolt in my case was perpendicular to the crossmember, but not vertical, it was horizontal, pointing for/ aft. Articulation made the bushing twist around it axis. There is enough torsional flexibility for the axle to articulate 30 degrees in either direction. WildFings axles only articulate that much anyway. Suspension droop only sees my wishbone angle change around 20 degrees from the normal position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Bill, sounds like the bushing I'm using, mine came from chassis end of upper a frame on one of the drive axles of an 8x4 foden truck, they seem common to a lot of trucks on the uk roads First incarnation looked like this Lewis, Did you set your crossmember back a bit to give as long a wishbone as possible ? A quick look under my RRC this morning reveals only the standard exhaust engine pipe shape would prevent from doing that. Anyway, how would you describe your trucks overall on road handling when compared to the standard radius arms ? PS, the inability to edit after a couple of hours is a PITA sometimes. Anyway, further to a previous post. I remember now, part of the reasoning behind the orientation of my wishbone bushing. On my old 6x6 I used to loosen the nut a tad on the thrubolt for totally resistance free articulation off road. That way the aluminium misalignment spacer washers and the complete bushing would rotate inside the hanger style mounting without the bushing having to twist. However for tighter on road handling, when back on level ground, I tightened the nut up hard, so that the bushing provided better roll resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Bill, I pushed the crossmember back as far as possible without having to repackage the rest of the car, the first one was built around a long nose r380 on a v8 but when I built the latest one I wasn't sure what engine or gearbox I would use so I tried to make it fit around all the usual options. In the photo above the crossmember is lying on it's back, forward face upward, you should be able to judge the position from the bolt holes in the side plates, the front four are in the standard position. From memory I would say the centre line of the crossmember is probably about 5inches further rearward than a stock 4cyl defender position. Even with this repositioning the wishbone still isn't as long as a stock radius arm, the sheer size of the bush doesn't help either. The orientation of your wishbone bush sounds like a pain to package, I'd like to see a photo if you (or Michele) has one so that I could picture it properly It is difficult to provide any meaningful comparisons with regard to the on road handling as fitting the first one link coincided with a number of other changes (reduced lift, new dampers, different tyres). The vehicle feels better to drive now, but I couldn't attribute this improvement to the one link over anything else. The first incarnation was very much a spur of the moment idea put into metal, seat of your pants engineering if you will, the second version (which I am yet to fit) has had more thought in the design and time in the build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 First incarnation looked like this What happened to first incarnation? Is there a second one? EDIT: didn´t saw your last post, as I was writting at the same time. Is there any reason for not mounting the silentblock the oposite way? What about using axle´s end of lorry A frame? It could be used for lengthtening the radious arms, but it could not have enough free movement for a propper 1Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I looked at mounting the bush the other way as in your diagram o_teunico, it seems like the ideal solution at first, but the ends of the radius arms are approx 2mm oversize the holes in the bush cross pin, and I didn't feel there was enough strength in the cross pin to drill them out to suit. Attaching the bush to the crossmember would also be a challenge and the bush would not be easily replaceable. Also if you attach the bush directly to the chassis ends of the radius arms (if you are using bent radius arms as one link wishbone) then you will end up with a short wishbone The axle end of the truck a frame is what first attracted my attention as I was trying to find a ball joint which would be suitable for the one link joint, however their massive size makes them hard to package neatly, and the range of movement on the one I had available was less than that of a land rover a frame ball joint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Bill, The orientation of your wishbone bush sounds like a pain to package, I'd like to see a photo if you (or Michele) has one so that I could picture it properly Actually, considering that in both cases I was/am working with a Series chassis that don't have unboltable crossmembers as standard, packaging wasn't/isn't as painful as you may think. The difficult part with WildFing is that due to the 4 3/4'' lift that the portals give, I have actually lowered the suspension to keep the COG low, and shaping the wishbone to provide good articulation without fouling the chassis is proving to be the headache, particularly as the One Link in my case may not offer any significant advantages over the present 3 link arrangement, aside from the possibility that the offset One Link may counteract driveshaft torque roll. I am seriously considering as a second alternative, moving the engine/transmission unit over to the right so that I can swap the upper 3rd link over to the left side and angle it down from axle to chassis crossmember. This would also counter torque roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Bill, The orientation of your wishbone bush sounds like a pain to package, I'd like to see a photo if you (or Michele) has one so that I could picture it properly Lewis, I think I now realise why you are having trouble comprehending how I mounted the bushing. Forget the truck trailing arm, the forging that the bushing presses into, and the centre pin. It is only the bushing itself that I use. I bored out a piece of heavy wall pipe to press the bushing into, and fabricated the wishbone around that ! Easily done. Now visualise a larger version of a leaf spring hanger for the bushing to ride in, and that hanger welded to the front vertical face of a rectangular crossmember, with the bushing centre pin perpendicular to it. Easy again,no pain. I removed the original centre pin from the bushing and replaced it with a 1'' dia bolt and misalignment spacer washers. If I can bring myself to go through my late wifes personal affects cupboard, and find where she put the camera and 'I phone' accessories, I will one day post up photos, but I struggle with that for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Lewis, I think I now realise why you are having trouble comprehending how I mounted the bushing. Forget the truck trailing arm, the forging that the bushing presses into, and the centre pin. It is only the bushing itself that I use. I bored out a piece of heavy wall pipe to press the bushing into, and fabricated the wishbone around that ! Easily done. Now visualise a larger version of a leaf spring hanger for the bushing to ride in, and that hanger welded to the front vertical face of a rectangular crossmember, with the bushing centre pin perpendicular to it. Easy again,no pain. I removed the original centre pin from the bushing and replaced it with a 1'' dia bolt and misalignment spacer washers. If I can bring myself to go through my late wifes personal affects cupboard, and find where she put the camera and 'I phone' accessories, I will one day post up photos, but I struggle with that for now. I'de also appreciate that pic as I want to start building my 1 link in the next month and I'm struggling to make my mind up on what to do with the joint., which also brings me to the X-member For the X-member I plan to make something like this.(see the high spec cad diagram below) I plan to make it out of say 6mm sheet. There's no room to mount it up within the chassis rails so it will have to hang below a little bit. The reason for the shape is down to wanting front and rear mounting points for the 1links and to reduce the risk of getting "hung up" on a mound for example compared to a square profile X-member. Only issue is objects (like a rocks) fouling it when travelling forward/backwards, but I hope to alter it very slightly to reduce some of the sharp angles to aid going over objects like rocks. What are peoples thoughts? Cheers P.S. the dimensions are not final, just a guestimation at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Why the V shape depression at top Mark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 its upside down but basically to aid clearance.in the centre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 its upside down but basically to aid clearance.in the centre Wouldn't it be easier/better to have 2 four inch diameter or rectangular X members 22" apart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I thought this would be stronger as it would give me more area to bolt it to the chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 hanger welded to the front vertical face of a rectangular crossmember, with the bushing centre pin perpendicular to it Bill, was your 1Link arranged like this zuki one? Have found this other picture in my computer. Can´t remember where I found it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 The prop flange on the Suzuki is quite special, as is most about everthing else!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 The axle end of the truck a frame is what first attracted my attention as I was trying to find a ball joint which would be suitable for the one link joint, however their massive size makes them hard to package neatly, and the range of movement on the one I had available was less than that of a land rover a frame ball joint There are A frames with bushing instead of ball, for axle end. This ones could be used for fabricatring a looooooooooooong and beef wishbone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 The prop flange on the Suzuki is quite special, as is most about everthing else!! They've welded the prop flange nut to the shaft as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 That second pic is the Cambridge Fabrications bolt on kit, which was either discussed in this thread or another recently at length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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