mikec Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Am I not allowed to help? Yeah mate I need all the help I can get, I don't like pestering though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 wtf is a spindal seal ?? Is there not a seal on the throttle spindle? I'm just guessing there is to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Yeah mate I need all the help I can get, I don't like pestering though Well seeing as youre looking for someone round the corner who could assist, i could be that guy. I dont however know when i can be available, schedule is so packed right now i havent touched my disco for over a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Well seeing as youre looking for someone round the corner who could assist, i could be that guy.I dont however know when i can be available, schedule is so packed right now i havent touched my disco for over a week Haha same here to be honest mate I only get an hour here and there to look at it. Hoping to have another go Saturday though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Mike I have never in 30+ yrs of playing with V8s ever changed or know anyone who has change them... Your bouncing about all over the place again half cock and it will just get you nowhere, you have to start and the beginning and systematically work through the possibilities.... I still say you have an air leak, either inlet manifold gasket poor quality / fi (what make is it ?) trumpet to inlet - is it sealed and torqued up properly and plenum to trumpet - there is a proper sealer to use - I would start with all those redone, Elring Inlet gasket, and torqued up right sequence properly and trumpet and plenum redone, and a check of all hoses to trumpet side, vacumn hose, PWM vac hoses all bloody hoses, one by one, step by step, making sure each is 101% spot on before looking at anything else, check hose from plenum to AFM etc etc etc Stabbing here and there gets you nowhere as you have no system, forget what you have / haven't done, and have no certainty of basics and what it is not... Been here before methinks ???Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 MikeI have never in 30+ yrs of playing with V8s ever changed or know anyone who has change them... Your bouncing about all over the place again half cock and it will just get you nowhere, you have to start and the beginning and systematically work through the possibilities.... I still say you have an air leak, either inlet manifold gasket poor quality / fi (what make is it ?) trumpet to inlet - is it sealed and torqued up properly and plenum to trumpet - there is a proper sealer to use - I would start with all those redone, Elring Inlet gasket, and torqued up right sequence properly and trumpet and plenum redone, and a check of all hoses to trumpet side, vacumn hose, PWM vac hoses all bloody hoses, one by one, step by step, making sure each is 101% spot on before looking at anything else, check hose from plenum to AFM etc etc etc Stabbing here and there gets you nowhere as you have no system, forget what you have / haven't done, and have no certainty of basics and what it is not... Been here before methinks ??? Nige I can't believe after three inlet gaskets the problem lies with the gasket, the last one was done up as per your instructions earlier. I've soap tested all round it, with the exception of the lower side of the inlet, obviously can't soap test that. So far I've had an OE gasket, though there's a story to that one,a britpart gasket the latest was allmakes/bearmach one of the two. Same with the plenum trumpet base seal, the soap test has shown up a few small leaks so it'd of shown up there to I'd say. All hoses are ok etc, checked them more times than I can count The point of renewing things like the spindle seal is so I can definitely say, yep it's not that. Otherwise I don't have any other ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 TBH this thread has been going on so long I've lost track of what the problem is now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Tell me about it fridge, in its six month now of not running right. That's why I'm getting fed up of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Tell me about it fridge, in its six month now of not running right. That's why I'm getting fed up of it That was kinda a hint that you might summarise where we're at; what's it doing, what the current setup is, what have you changed / checked / tested, a current data-log, etc... As far as I can remember, you're on Nige's standard map, pwm blocked off, plumbing all standard, and it's kangarooing, especially off-road? Am I close? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Ok. Yep pwm removed/pipes blocked, standard rockers and breather pipes all fitted. Tw set ok Timing checked with light. Running Nige supplied map. Flatspot and kangorooing, also hunts on the standard map a little. Well something like a variance of 250-300rpm. Not easy to start from cold but think the reason for that was no pwm fitted, can't remember exactly, but not a huge problem at the minute. Latest symptom that developed the other weekend was a slight whoosh, say 3rd 30mph light throttle. Does sound like its sucking in air somewhere. So far best result has been connecting the inlet to the compressor and pressurising it, and soaking it all in soapy water, found leaks on the pwm "plate" on the rear of the plenum, throttle spindle leaks on the linkage side and the idle speed screw too. Sorted most of these by a mixture of swapping plenum tops and resealing the pwm etc. As sure as I can be it isn't drawing air in from the plenum top, or the trumpet base to manifold. Also along the top edge of the inlet gasket, as above cant be sure of the underside as obviously I can't see it. When pressurising the inlet, I'm sure I can hear air hissing from below the throttle body somewhere, but can't find it if it is, it could be a leak on the inner tube I've clipped onto the I take to pump the air in though. Cheers mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 To those who have looked at mikes datalogs, how do the injector pulse widths and duty cycles appear? Just thinking, have we checked to see that it is getting enough fuel? This is assuming fuel pressure is correct of course. Just thinking it could be lean on fuel not air, perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 Been out today for ten minutes and there is a hiss/sucking just as the throttles opened under load, but I don't know if that could be a normal sound or not, though I doubt it. I had wondered myself about the fuel pressure/regulator. Is it possible to get an adaptor for a guage to go into the Hotwire pressure sender hole I wonder?? Might get one anyway just out of interest. I reckon the fuel required etc is ok. I've had two maps from Nige and it runs the same on both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 Ok guys I've got most of tomos on it now, but need it back running for Sunday. Any suggestions what I should look at please? Havnt got an inlet gasket so can't do that ....again:) Thinking of getting my blow torch and blowing the gas under the inlet manifold between that and the valley gadket, unlit obviously is that likely to be a good way of seeing about a leak under there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Thinking of getting my blow torch and blowing the gas under the inlet manifold between that and the valley gadket, unlit obviously is that likely to be a good way of seeing about a leak under there? Sounds like a recipe for a nasty explosion to me! What about a mirror on a stick and repeat your bubble-blowing exercise? Cheers Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I've done that before.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 I've done that before.... Done which? I don't think it's too dangerous to be honest it's not acetylene though I might try that if it doesn't work ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Mike As I have said numerous times before. BASICS In simple terms if when you disconnect the MAT sensor it runs bettwer its simple cos the engioen gets more fuel as it richens the VE cos it thinks its been beamed into siberia at 040. This nmeans that if the engine run better RICHER with the MAT sensor disconnected it runnuing LEAN when connect = an air leak, a pipe connected wrongly, or part of the set up wrong, ie restrictor, breathers etc which is affecting PCP in the system. My money is on an air leak, and it doesn't take much, running its got a 10-11 x vacumn pulling ait in. Don't look for air leaks on a cold engine, get it good and hot - things expand, and work systematically over ever hose, which means removing them and looking at them - don't jump to conclusions, or go off on side tracks. Care and attention to detail and thoughorness is the order of the day, check everything, doubt everything WHAT did you "Glue the inlet / trumpets / plenum on with ? - there is special stuff for this, RTV is NOT good Slow, steady, methodical, intensive looking, EVERY hose every join As I said prob 10 pages ago, its NOT megasquirt - you have an AIR LEAK or 3.maybe a dodgy PRV or something MECHANICAL the MSQ you have has been given to untold numbers of peeps and runs them all damned well, so forget MS and look at your engine !!. Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Unlit blowlamp, works well, although admittedly not on an RV8, but an old Honda Accord I had that surged at idle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Tried the blowlamp, couldn't get a consistent improvement anywhere. Pulled the plenum and trumpet base off again, pulled the injectors, gave those a quick check, clean replaced all that, hylomar blue on everything. Everything replaced, clips on everything, anything that needs torquing down has been. Still no different. Can someone just confirm this flatspot issue is actually a problem and not normal? If its idling and i blip the throttle from the throttle body, say 1/3-1/2 throttle it pretty much almost stalls before it revs up. I just want to check what should be happening there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Hylomar Blue is the wrong stuff there is some special stuff that doesn't set and is like very very thick glue And I can confirm that hunting up and down of 200 RPM at tickover is NOT normal for that Map / engine combo The blip on the throttle could be a matter of simple tuning, but its not if the tickover is +/-200 rpm when warm ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Blue hylomar has worked everytime for me, it is non-setting like the original stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Hylomar Blue is the wrong stuff there is some special stuff that doesn't set and is like very very thick glueAnd I can confirm that hunting up and down of 200 RPM at tickover is NOT normal for that Map / engine combo The blip on the throttle could be a matter of simple tuning, but its not if the tickover is +/-200 rpm when warm ? Nige Sure someone mentioned that earlier in the post to use hylomar blue, also says in my rr manual to use "hylomar gasket and jointing compound" which is what I've used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 For ally to ally joints i always use stc611 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 To be honest its not those joints anyway,when I've pressurised it even the smallest of leeks have shown up, but nothing ever from those joints. I can only presume its either the lower part of the manifold, which I don't think either. Or a hose somewhere which I also don't think to be honest. Or something completely different. I perhaps should of swapped the fuel pressure reg, but I didn't want it to be worse, for tomos! I did suck on the one fitted and my spare and they both held the vacum the same etc. So just presuming there is no inlet leak and the ms is all ok what else could be causing this? Cam timing, tappet preload etc. Also regarding the hunting would it be uniform if it was an air leak or could it vary, my hunting isn't consistent, one minute its idling ok next it starts hunting next it gets worse then goes ok etc. Also, not sure I'm right or not here but hunting caused by an air leak, happens because the lambda see it lean then adds fuel then see its rich etc. is that right? If so turning the ego off would sort it? Or have I got all that wrong? I'm just trying to understand more what could be causing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Blue hylomar has worked everytime for me, it is non-setting like the original stuff. We posted at the same time, yep it was you mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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