To all those "I'll have a go at doing the wiring" types

[Bowie69]

Insulation displacement is fine in telecoms cabinets, covered in petroleum jelly, but I won't be putting them on my car electrics in a hurry, as above, corrosion and water ingress is the issue dealt with in a cabinet by jelly, nothing on a car to do this....

[rovernut]

Simple way to deal with electric systems, treat them with the respect they deserve, if you know what you are doing, go to town, if you don't, ask someone in the know nicely to help out.

Tell your mate to take his degree back...he got ripped off. However, to your average joe it is a perfectly viable conclusion (but not acceptable from a electrical engineer). Think of it as a straw vs a industrial storm drain.

Scotch locks provide no protection from water ingress, copper oxidation and do not provide a full surface area clamping solution. Also once they have been closed...how do you actually know you have a sound connection?

They are, and always will be a lazy solution to a problem that can be done properly with decent equipment and parts.

So how is a spade connector or a taped up solder joint any less exposed to moisture ingress. Also consider that most connections for towing are made inside the vehicle. And you would test it in the same way you test any connection

[Adam001]

So how is a spade connector or a taped up solder joint any less exposed to moisture ingress. Also consider that most connections for towing are made inside the vehicle. And you would test it in the same way you test any connection

Never said a spade connector or a taped up solder joint is any better.

I use soldered joints only in straight lines with strain relief planned in. The joint is then covered by raychem spec heatshrink (preferably adhesive lined, but not always as I'll admit it's expensive stuff) with a layer of self extinguishing insulation tape.

Spade connectors can be fine if the correct ones, you can get a good connection but I still don't use them for high current applications, best ones are chemically stable double crimp copper, I apply a small amount of solder to the second crimp to seal the ends of the strands then cover the rest with 3mm heatshrink for 1-3mm^2 cables and 4-5mm for 3mm^2+ cables with 9.5mm spades.

I don't personally even like spades all that much, pin connectors are easier to seal in purpose made housings, but lots of kit still need spades.

How can you test the scotch lock? A resistance check will show it as perfect unless you have a expensive multimeter that can read very low values and compensate for it's own leads, you have to load it with the full fuse current, not 21W for instance, typically must be able to handle 72W or 144W, you have to plan for worst case. A connection you can see or feel is always better for reassurance.

[rovernut]

Never said a spade connector or a taped up solder joint is any better.

I use soldered joints only in straight lines with strain relief planned in. The joint is then covered by raychem spec heatshrink (preferably adhesive lined, but not always as I'll admit it's expensive stuff) with a layer of self extinguishing insulation tape.

Spade connectors can be fine if the correct ones, you can get a good connection but I still don't use them for high current applications, best ones are chemically stable double crimp copper, I apply a small amount of solder to the second crimp to seal the ends of the strands then cover the rest with 3mm heatshrink for 1-3mm^2 cables and 4-5mm for 3mm^2+ cables with 9.5mm spades.

I don't personally even like spades all that much, pin connectors are easier to seal in purpose made housings, but lots of kit still need spades.

How can you test the scotch lock? A resistance check will show it as perfect unless you have a expensive multimeter that can read very low values and compensate for it's own leads, you have to load it with the full fuse current, not 21W for instance, typically must be able to handle 72W or 144W, you have to plan for worst case. A connection you can see or feel is always better for reassurance.

My preference is for pin type non insulated crimps inserted into an end sealed block. I also like to use the liquid insulation that you paint on whenever there is an exposed connector, be it crimp, solder or scotch lock.

I suspect that only ever having seen blue scotch locks readily available, most people probably are unaware of the existence of reds and yellows.

[UdderlyOffroad]

You maybe need to check some of these kits and examine what you get from Witter, Brink, Bosal, PCT and Westfalia. And don't forget, Vehicle manufacturers kits are not produced in house. I have seen some pretty awful manufacturers kits. that require lengthy dismantling of the vehicle to fit. The pro's don't fit cheap bars and electrics without being asked to do so by the customer. An excellent example of this is the BMW X5. A witter bar with electrics (including a by pass relay would work out at around the £350.00 mark fitted. The "genuine BMW bar (usually Westfalia) fitted at a BMW workshop would set you back £2,500. It would usually be farmed out to a local Tow bar company in any case. The local BMW, AUDI, Mercedes, Ford, Vauxhall and most other mainstream dealerships always sent their new vehicles to us for fitment, very rarely specifying genuine.

Yikes! I was thinking of getting a tow-bar place to fit a towbar to my Eurobox (Pug 308), as it requires either a bypass relay, or the dedicated Peugeot loom and a trip to the main stealer to change some of the settings in the ECU. Don't think I'll bother, will fit the bypass myself, and not have scotchloks anywhere near it!

Back on topic, vehicle electrics aren't difficult, but one needs

1. Some theoretical knowledge
2. A good meter AND test lamp
3. The right consumables & means to install them (viz. decent crimper)
4. An anal perfectionist mindset

Back to pop culture, first rule of Auto-sparks club:

• Do not use scotchloks

Second rule of Auto-sparks club....etc

My coat and hat? Why thank you!

[rovernut]

Yikes! I was thinking of getting a tow-bar place to fit a towbar to my Eurobox (Pug 308), as it requires either a bypass relay, or the dedicated Peugeot loom and a trip to the main stealer to change some of the settings in the ECU. Don't think I'll bother, will fit the bypass myself, and not have scotchloks anywhere near it!

Back on topic, vehicle electrics aren't difficult, but one needs

1. Some theoretical knowledge
2. A good meter AND test lamp
3. The right consumables & means to install them (viz. decent crimper)
4. An anal perfectionist mindset

Back to pop culture, first rule of Auto-sparks club:

• Do not use scotchloks

Second rule of Auto-sparks club....etc

My coat and hat? Why thank you!

You will need to run a power supply to the relay itself (there is not always one present) and if you buy the right relay, it wouldn't be fitted with scotchlocks in any case. Whilst probing for the correct wires to connect to, you will probably activate the bulb failure and will have to keep re setting. The alternative is to get the correct wire colour codes from a reliable source.

On some of the high end models, BMW and Mercedes to name just two you often find that brake and side light use the same single filament bulb and this involves connecting brake light only at the relay and allow the relay itself to interpret the signals. The Peugeot uses a much simpler system and all functions need connecting (apart from reverse unless for a Caravan)

[UdderlyOffroad]

You will need to run a power supply to the relay itself (there is not always one present) and if you buy the right relay, it wouldn't be fitted with scotchlocks in any case. Whilst probing for the correct wires to connect to, you will probably activate the bulb failure and will have to keep re setting. The alternative is to get the correct wire colour codes from a reliable source.

On some of the high end models, BMW and Mercedes to name just two you often find that brake and side light use the same single filament bulb and this involves connecting brake light only at the relay and allow the relay itself to interpret the signals. The Peugeot uses a much simpler system and all functions need connecting (apart from reverse unless for a Caravan)

Thanks for the heads-up Rovernut! I know the awkward bit will be running some power to the feed the bypass relay, haven't quite figured out how to do that one yet. As for the brake circuit thing, yes I had seen the slightly more expensive bypass relays and wondered what they were for. Will probably fit 13-pin socket to future proof myself (but not the caravan bit, can't see myself ever wanting to tow one with a Pug when I have a Landie!). Apparently all new braked trailers have to have a reverse light (not just caravans) therefore 13-pin electrics are standard, but I can't find a source for this fact.

Back on-topic, at one stage I did start to write a vehicle electrics fault-finding thread - but gave up (because I ran out of time on my lunchbreak...)will dig it out and post up, maybe others could contribute and we could create something useful for the tech archive.

[rovernut]

I have been out of the Tow Bar business for a while so don't know all the regulation changes. However, I do know that trailers have to be type approved from October including flat pack self assembly.

I have been on the website of the National Trailer and Towing Association and have not seen anything about reversing lights.

I would say that if you don't need 13 pin then fit 7 pin. The MOT calls for visual inspection of the seven pin socket but full function testing of the 13.

If your trailer has a 13 pin plug and you have a 7 fitted an adapter is available to give mandatory lighting.

[landroversforever]

Less voltage drop will increase the current flow.

Imagine each wire to the the head lamp was 1 ohm and the bulb was 10 ohms you would have 12 ohms resistance with a voltage drop of 1 volt across each lead and 10 volts across the bulb. This would lead to 1 amp flowing in the circuit (V=IxR). If you were now to put amazing cables_TM in instead that have no loss you would have a total circuit resistance of 10 ohms meaning all 12 volts would be dropped across the bulb with 1.2 amps flowing through the circuit.

caveat: Of course this is over simplified and I've made no attempt to make the figures remotely real world figures.

Ahh I see . Thanks!

[JeffR]

Just thought I'd share this little f@$£ing gem. The near side headlamp has been somewhat dull, so as part of a minor front end tidy up whilst fitting new headlamps I couldn't get the bloody bulb connector to come loose (ain't much space on a Disco) so after a bit of fiddling (only after cleaning up and replacing very bloody earthing point in the engine bay, of course), look what I found - you can't see the corrosion on the inside of the terminal.

FFS as the opening comment on this thread states :

"If you don't know what you are doing, either learn, or find someone who does."

Oh and just to add insult to injury the other end of the household earth cable was simply joined to the LR loom via a rather nice twist the wires together.

Just fitted a new multi pin connector and now my headlights are fantastic!.

[CwazyWabbit]

.... is that not factory then Jeff?

[runs and hides to avoid the multiple projectiles heading this way]

[JeffR]

.... is that not factory then Jeff?

[runs and hides to avoid the multiple projectiles heading this way]

Having seen some of the factory fitted parts on this bloody thing, I'm not entirely convinced that it isn't......

I am honestly beginning to regret ever having started this bloody thing, it often seems that the light at the end of the tunnel is actually the 3.50pm London to Newcastle express.

Over the years I've worked on cars with bodges, but this one doesn't just take the biscuit, it takes the biscuit fckin production and packaging line.

[CwazyWabbit]

.... it often seems that the light at the end of the tunnel is actually the 3.50pm London to Newcastle express......

It's late then!

To be fair with the amount of work you have done on it Jeff there can't be too much you haven't repaired/replaced/unbodged by now, you must be almost there .... you'll feel better about it when you are actually driving it about

[JeffR]

I know, bugger was booked in for an mot, then the tester dropped a car on his foot (no, he is not a relation) which gave me some time.....

And well I'm now thinking of doing a temporary repair job on the headlamp panels and a few patches on the front inner wings

Two steps forward, one step back

Oh and the wife is really whinging about having to walk to and from work...........

And I need the barsteward for a job at the end of next week!

[CwazyWabbit]

Lets hope the bugger passes!

[JeffR]

Lets hope the bugger passes!

Arms/legs/fingers/children all crossed. Candles lit in every place of worship, sacrifices made to pagan Gods of old...........

[Nigelw]

Soldering iron and internally resin coated heat shrink was friend when I did the electrical's on the Rusty one.

http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dieseldog69/media/Rusty19-10-12046.jpg.html'>

Had a lot to do but worth it I think????

Good luck Jeff, hope she passes

[JeffR]

Not a cat in hells chance of that happening now, found that the front inner wings are not as solid as they appeared, what I thought was chicken sh!t welding turned out to be bloody No nails builders adhesive!

FFS this thing is never bloody ending. Gonna have to burn the candle at both ends between now and Tuesday. It ain't gonna be pretty, but at least it''l be metal!