santalars Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hi Gents - it's been a while. I have (still) play in the rear diff - it's almost half a prop shaft turn - and had a look if there is anything wrong with the diff. It turned out that the diff is fine. The only source for the play i could find is the difflocker, but I could not replicate it once the diff was out. It's also not the splines - they are fine. Is that a Detroid locker?? I heard they are pretty much indistuctable - correct ? I'm used to the occasional Bang but is the play ok too? Do I have to be worried? All Opinions are very welcome - Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangy35 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I for one can not confim its a Detroit, it does look like it but there are a few diff lockers that look very similar. I would check the diff locker as well, strip it and check it out, have you tested the back lash and have you checked the tooth contact surface and is it in the right spot. Dont forget there is a diff in the transfer box too and a few other parts in there that can cause exessive play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 If you have the play when the vehicle is on level ground with both wheels able to turn equally then it's not going to be anything to do with the internals of the locker. As they will not be turning. You have 3 places for the slack to build up: Drive Flange to half-shaft joint Half shaft to diff joint Pinion to Crownwheel backlash. My guess is that the slack is a build up from the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Drive flanges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Is the flange onto the pinion tight?? You could get slight play there, there could be play in the planet gears, too. . you wouldn't be able to see that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashtrans Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 It's a Detroit locker, due the the way the dog clutches work internally they will add backlash, They are not indestructible, the disengagement teeth inside fail then they don't unlock, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 It's a Detroit locker, due the the way the dog clutches work internally they will add backlash, They are not indestructible, the disengagement teeth inside fail then they don't unlock, Dave You learn something new every day. Thanks for the info Dave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santalars Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Just to confirm: Dave is soooo right. Locker locked and did not open on tarmac - big bang - halfshaft no 1 broken. However, as the locker did not unlock I did not notice - thought it was just one of the usual bangs from the locker. Whilst offroading on New Zealands South Island - 2nd halfshaft gone. That left me with front wheel drive in a not very good spot! Just made it out of there in reverse. Can I fix the locker myself or will a spring break my fingers or face when I take it apart ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 sorry, a bit O/T... is that a tank??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashtrans Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Just to confirm: Dave is soooo right. Locker locked and did not open on tarmac - big bang - halfshaft no 1 broken. However, as the locker did not unlock I did not notice - thought it was just one of the usual bangs from the locker. Whilst offroading on New Zealands South Island - 2nd halfshaft gone. That left me with front wheel drive in a not very good spot! Just made it out of there in reverse. IMG_0139.JPG Can I fix the locker myself or will a spring break my fingers or face when I take it apart ? Hi, you can pull it apart but if its not unlocking then I suspect you will find that one or both of the side clutches have failed, I dont think these side clutches are available but when they were they were about £ 90 each, I wouldn't bother fixing it if I were you, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Just to confirm: Dave is soooo right. Locker locked and did not open on tarmac - big bang - halfshaft no 1 broken. However, as the locker did not unlock I did not notice - thought it was just one of the usual bangs from the locker. Whilst offroading on New Zealands South Island - 2nd halfshaft gone. That left me with front wheel drive in a not very good spot! Just made it out of there in reverse. IMG_0139.JPG Can I fix the locker myself or will a spring break my fingers or face when I take it apart ? Hi, you can pull it apart but if its not unlocking then I suspect you will find that one or both of the side clutches have failed, I dont think these side clutches are available but when they were they were about £ 90 each, I wouldn't bother fixing it if I were you, Dave Hi Dave. I wonder if you can confirm a suspicion I have that Detroit locker components over the past 2 decades or so have been made with the sintered or lost wax casting metal process ? My Salisbury Detroit components of years ago, at first glance gave the impression and witness marks of having been milled, but the broken bits gave the impression of them being cast. Could it be that the original forged/milled pieces were used as patterns for the castings, hence the appearance of milling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashtrans Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hi Bill, I dont think they were sintered from what I remember but I have not seen any for a while, we stopped selling them a few years ago, they are too noisy in a 90 and when they broke the you had to send it to the manufacturer in the US, wait a while for them to say it was 'overloaded' due to off roading !!!!!! you then had the option of them scrapping it or them charging you the carriage to send the scrap locker back, all this while the customer was waiting with the vehicle off the road, usually they would just pay the difference and upgrade to an ARB, once this happened a few times we stopped selling them which was a shame as it was actually me that contacted them in the early 90's and asked them to make them for the rover, I send them drawings etc, they sent some samples etc, we tested and ordered etc, people didnt mind a little noise when the were cheap which they were at the time as we were buying direct and the dollar was weak, they sold quite well back then as the only option was the ARB at £ 800 + V ea, we worked with the design engineers and my father, Ian suggested altering the side clutch ramp angles by a few degrees so the unlocked easier to stop the wind up and banging when they disengaged, the prototypes with these new angles worked well but it was never followed up into production for some reason, at first we had the worldwide rover detroit locker and truetrac market as being american they assumed there was only a small market outside the US but as they woke up to the size of the rover market they then started marketing them in other countries so we just had europe, 6 months later, just the UK, a few months later there were lots of people in the UK buying them also production moved to Ireland and they got much more expensive, then to Poland, anyway sorry to ramble, just a bit of history someone may find interesting !! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Very interesting - would you be kind enough to share the history of your involvement with the kaiser lockers ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh NZ Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 sorry, a bit O/T... is that a tank??? Looks like a gold dredging barge. Which I would guess means you are either on the west coast somewhere near greymouth or down near queenstown. Awesome photo though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashtrans Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Very interesting - would you be kind enough to share the history of your involvement with the kaiser lockers ? Hi, This was a few years ago now, I saw a little about the Kaisers on the web then contacted then to cost up samples with a view to buy a volume if they tested ok, an auto locker with perfect road manners is the holy grail !! The samples arrived, one front, one rear, I had my doubts about an auto locker in the front so just fitted one in the rear of our 2.4 TDCi auto 90, it was quite good, much better than the Detroit locker, occasional small clonk from the rear like driving over a manhole cover but nothing bad and not very often, far better than the Detroit which we had recently dropped. I ordered 50 or 70, can't remember now but with the carriage and strange extra charges with exporting from Brasil they ended up very expensive and this coincided with our air locker coming out which was only £ 50 more at £475, ie auto locker, Kaiser for £425 or the air locker at £475, people bought the air locker and still do, The Kaisers sold slowly but we got a few reports of bad clonking which I was surprised to hear as I had one in my 90 which was fine. A customer brought one in ,in a car for me to test drive and it clonked badly when turning slowly, ie when parking. It transpired they were fine in an auto ( ie my test car) but not great in a manual which 95% of our customers have. Having experienced it first hand, I didn't like the idea of selling them knowing they drove like this, so we didn't reorder any more, this coincided with our stock running out do we just dropped them. We now sell lots of our ATB's and our air lockers but very few ARB's, maybe one ARB to every 250 of ours, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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