Prop Play

[reb78]

Well, I think I have found the source of my vibrations. It looks like its nothing to do with the injectors (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=86870). That's kind of reassuring because I was struggling to link the two.

Anyway, the front prop has play at the transfer box UJ and also in the sliding joint. The annoying thing is, its a Gwyn Lewis HD prop, ~25k miles and just under 3 years old. Perhaps I haven't greased it enough? probably twice a year on average - I don't do anything extreme with the truck like wading etc otherwise it would be more often.

Now, if it was just the UJ, I could change that, but the play in the sliding joint is making me wonder if the prop is scrap. Its not so much rotational play, but up down play i.e. there is up down movement at the sliding joint, so if you push up at that point, it flexes. I've tried to get a video of it below (its most obvious about half way through):

Is this prop scrap?

[Retroanaconda]

Both mine (also Gwyn Lewis ones same as yours) have far more play in the sliding joints than that and I don't seem to have any bad vibrations or the like. I've had to replace all four UJs once each, which was a bit of a pain, and to be fair the play in the sliding joints wasn't always there. They've done about 40k now in about three years, a fair bit of that in their early days was off road on muddy/wet forest tracks so perhaps that hasn't helped their lifespan but they are supposed to be "HD" after all! I greased them every few months when I was using it off road a lot. Now it's mostly road miles I just do them every time the engine oil is changed, so every 6,000 miles.

When they do give up standard ones will be going back on I think.

[reb78]

That's the thing! I was expecting long life. The rear prop is original, so 24 years old and the sliding joint is tight as can be. The rear UJ was recently changed, but that easily had in excess of 80k on it.

The vibrations may be coming from the UJ at the transfer box. That's got play in all directions. Are they standard UJs on the HD props? I have a spare in there garage and I might pop that on tomorrow if you folks think the sliding joint is acceptable.

Alternatively, it looks like lrseries and britcar sell hardy spicer propshafts for around 70 quid, although I have a fear that they will come in blue boxes.

[Nigelw]

Maybe? But what does Gwyn give as tolerance?

I put my solid front prop from my old V8 on Rusty when I rebuilt the front axle as they are a wider angle yolk, 106,000miles and the slip joint had zero flex in it, can't speak for the UJs as they can be changed and you'd never know.

Good that I mention that as forgot to upgrade the part No.s in my book, gotta dash OCD moment about to occur.

[Nigelw]

Alternatively, it looks like lrseries and britcar sell hardy spicer propshafts for around 70 quid, although I have a fear that they will come in blue boxes.

Johan got a blue box special as that was all he could get quickly and it contained a Bailey Morris Prop

[Retroanaconda]

The UJs in the Gwyn Lewis props (made by Bailey Morris) are the 1310 type, 30 degree I think. I used these, I presume they haven't changed the design: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180758518518. Though I did buy them direct from Bailey Morris as Gwyn had none in stock at the time I needed them. Price was the same.

Not compatible with "standard" Land Rover UJs

[reb78]

Blimey! That set of UJs is almost as much as an aftermarket propshaft with a hardy spicer badge on it! I'm not sure what to do.

Nigels right, there may be some allowable tolerance there, but I can't believe any play in the middle at the slide joint is really going to do anything for the prop long term, or the bearings in the diff or transferbox.

[Nigelw]

Can't remember if you run a lift or not, but I would be tempted to just fit a standard aftermarket prop as there is so little in it price wise and be confident in the knowledge that there is no play in the sliding joint.

But certainly worth contacting Gwyn with regards the seemingly early expiration of the HD unit on your seemingly low mileage.

[Anderzander]

I think it's worth letting Gwyn know too.

[reb78]

Thanks chaps. I have dropped gwyn an email. I'm not knocking his products, but I am surprised at its early failure.

No lift at all. The truck is pretty standard really. I only bought that prop as I saw it as a sensible upgrade at the time, i.e. I thought it would be an improvement over the original part. Seems perhaps not in this case.

I do think I'll go down the standard route. I can replace the whole propshaft for the cost of the two UJs on this HD one!

[reb78]

Just as an update. As i understand what i have been told, my prop was made by GKN and it seems that a little play in the sliding joint was normal in these. However, i am unhappy with the amount in mine and Gwyn has since changed supplier to Bailey Morris for the ones he sells. Apparently they have a much better designed sliding joint that is also easier to grease sufficiently. He has offered me one of these Bailey Morris ones at a discounted price which i have taken him up on - still a lot less than LR genuine.

I could have gone for the cheaper Paddocks GKN branded one, but after my episode with the bushes, i am cautious about buying stuff from Paddocks and some other online suppliers again - it has been suggested that even the props for sale on some sites marked as GKN are actually cheaper GKN models that come from China with cheap and nasty UJs fitted and so the purchase of 'OEM' parts seems to remain an absolute minefield. Again, OEM is not necessarily the same as the original thing in LR packaging.

[Daan]

OEM is not necessarily the same as the original thing in LR packaging.

I would rephrase that in never the same as original.

Daan

[reb78]

I would rephrase that in never the same as original.

Daan

I think that's what I'm slowly learning!

[Retroanaconda]

Especially with props and UJs. GKN will make the same size UJ in various degrees of "HD-ness" for various applications, so just because it's GKN boxed doesn't mean it's to the same spec as one from Land Rover.

reb78: Did Gwyn say when he changed from GKN to Bailey Morris? Mine were bought in November 2010.

[reb78]

Sorry James. He didn't give a date. I fitted the one in the video above in February 2011 if that's any help.

[Retroanaconda]

That would suggest that mine are GKN too then.

Not sure what the difference in spline design is, the Bailey Morris website describes theirs as having a Rislin (sp?) coated spline, which mine seems to have. So not sure!

[reb78]

Something I noticed with mine was that when greasing the sliding joint, grease came out of the UJ end. Apparently the joint itself was difficult to fully grease. I guess the grease was coming out rather than going where it was needed...

[Retroanaconda]

Same. It comes out under the plastic plug by the UJ.

[reb78]

It looks like you can probably identify yours from the sliding joint. The new one has arrived and the joint is a lot beefier:

[Landrovernuts]

There needs to be a vent (most seem to be beside the UJ) otherwise the prop would hydraulically lock. I have a similar prop from Devon 4x4 which also vents from beside the UJ. I can remember greasing it before fitting and when try to compress the sliding joint, it locked until the excess grease had been expelled.

Toby

[Retroanaconda]

Yes I see now. Mine look like this (or at least they did when they were new!):

[reb78]

Yep. Same as my old one. I think if I knew what I know now, I'd have more of a fiddle with them to try and get the grease into the sliding joint more effectively.