iomlt Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Hello, i think I have the answer but unsure if its pin point-able over forum but hey, see what you think Basically fell over in a comp into water. nothing serious and all up on all fours again shortly after infact first flick of the key she was away ideling perfectly. Video from inside http://s722.photobucket.com/user/iomlr/media/whoopsSplat_zpsb302761e.mp4.html So got her back up and running no problem at all a little smokey but to be expected. ran for another hour just down on power and dying under load she wasnt popping or farting around just very little power. i just put it down to oiled up plugs. Got her home took plugs out slightly oily cleaned up move plugs around and fired up fine, reved well but then gets worse the hotter she gets, when up to running temp she loses power now again tick over seems fine but if PWM opens (when cooler) the air from pwm enters it can sometimes kill her. If i boot it from tick over, big pause then revs again sometimes will hit rev limiter other time cannot get up there and seems to die, no back fire or anything I'm thinking Coils pack. right bank. i haven't changed the plugs for new ones yet i'm going to change the plugs thats next i think..... but something tells me its coil pack attached is msq and a short log of me playing around with the accelerator.. anyone spot anything? I was just going to buy a coil pack and fix it but thought if i post on here it might come in handy for someone else Funny thing with MS over hotwire is when you take a roll an especially in water ms doesn't die. like a diesel having to turn her off! class love MS! fault lg.xls fault tune.msq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Doh, sorry can't comment on your engine problem, but impressive photo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 It's possible you've oiled the lambda sensor, which would then read wrong and may mean it's correcting off into the weeds either too rich or lean, from memory they read very lean so the MS corrects all the time and ends up pig rich. Yours certainly seems to be constantly reading lean. If that's the issue, the solution has a few parts: - Clean the sensor tip by heating it till cherry red with a blowlamp - Don't have as much controller authority in the EGO settings, 10% should be fine if your fuel map is pretty good - You should not have EGO correction active below about 1500rpm anyway, otherwise it will affect idle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Yup, dirty sensor = reads lean = runs pig rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 It's possible you've oiled the lambda sensor, which would then read wrong and may mean it's correcting off into the weeds either too rich or lean, from memory they read very lean so the MS corrects all the time and ends up pig rich. Yours certainly seems to be constantly reading lean. If that's the issue, the solution has a few parts: - Clean the sensor tip by heating it till cherry red with a blowlamp - Don't have as much controller authority in the EGO settings, 10% should be fine if your fuel map is pretty good - You should not have EGO correction active below about 1500rpm anyway, otherwise it will affect idle. rightio.... so what would you advise i change the settings too? Am i right in saying. I can remove the sensor and through a bung in and turn off (something) so it doesnt use the sensor anymore" I'm happy the way she ran before the flop..... Thank you very much for the input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 To disable correction & ignore the sensor, set authority to 0%. To stop it trying to correct near idle, raise the "Active above RPM" some way off idle, in the pic it's 1300 which should be fine unless your fast idle is near there. It just tells the MS that below 1300rpm you're not cruising along so don't try and hit 14.7:1 mixture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Awesome thank you. everyday a school day! will report back later this evening with findings and hopefully some good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Evening, changed settings as decribedTook lamda out, Didn't look to dirty in fairness, cleaned as described, Put back in. fired her up, Again from cold not toooo bad, warmer it gets the worse it gets, to she'll sometimes idle When hot on warm up idled ok. , then when warm reving again 2 out 10 times will rev up no problem but if i'm fast with the accelerator ir just doesnt rev and dies slowly with a big gulp of air and nothing.... I have ordered two new coil packs (i use disco 2 coil packs) they wil be here friday. gut feeling is one of them isnt happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Predictive text on a phone... I should know better! Basically i changed settings as above, cleaned lambda senor she fires up as per normal, idles ok from cold, If i try and rev she revs ok if rev'd fairly slowely. After leaving her to idle for 5 -10 minutes. i try and rev her hard and 2- 10 she w'll rev up but majority of the time will die off. just dies, again if i can get her to rev maybe bounce the accelerator alittle then rev she'll rev up but not 100% and then dies off. up to running temp struggle to idle majority of the time again at low revs if i bounce the accelerator a little to help with idle she'll idle ok. On the road under load from idle she'll die. keep it reving and go she'll go but not great got to be careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Fired up, first thing. i can rev her fairly slowly all the way up say 2 seconds to hit limiter, but if i plant my foot she dies. Also once rev'd if lift of the pedal and go straight to idle it usually dies, slowly bring the revs down she idles perfectly. Shes running on all 8. hopefully coil packs will turn up tomorrow and i'll change 1 and a time and see if that cures her, if not then new plugs, I cannot see it being the leads they are 18months oil Magnecor leads ????? Firstly as fuel tank etc was under water for a good 10 minutes i'll drain tank change filter and put fresh fuel in. I'm unsure if any got in (gauge didn't look noticeably different once on back on 4 wheels) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Sorry for slight hi-jack. Fridge, you mention cleaning the oiled up lambda. So this works? Can one 'dry out' a lambda too? Mine got the hump after a good amount of wading, except the fault didn't occur till as few days later. My lambda (NB) controls LPG flow, and my ignition is by Megajolt. The lambda was reading over rich, causing the fuel control stepper motor to shut down until the engine died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 iomlt - How odd. Are you getting proper fuel pressure, not knocked or squashed any plumbing (fuel, air, water, wires) etc? It's not unheard of for crud in the tank to be disturbed and stick itself to the fuel pickup for example. Mickey - You can burn off crud on the sensor tip (oil, water, unburnt fuel varnish) with a blowlamp, however that's not a fix-all if the internals are damaged or gunked up, I believe the sensors "breathe" very slightly through the top so they can compare with outside air. If you have a voltmeter you can see the voltage come up on the sensor as you heat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 iomlt - How odd. Are you getting proper fuel pressure, not knocked or squashed any plumbing (fuel, air, water, wires) etc? It's not unheard of for crud in the tank to be disturbed and stick itself to the fuel pickup for example. Thats next. - i'll drain tank and check and remove pick up and test. while thats out i'll throw it into a tub of fresh fuel and test / along with fuel pressure. I have a 4.2 ready to go in BUT i want to cure this fault because its bugging me and i want to know what it is! Probably be saturday now till i report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Al Change plugs for defo, V8 plugs when sooted up misfires or floods can be wounded and play up, but not dead.....lost count how many times starnge things go with new plugs - use NGKBP6RES Also, have you got proper Oil pressure ?.....if not your not only feruk ones engine but the lifters won't be pumping u[p to lift. Lambda - I remove when doing any offroading, you don't need it in there ! Check water in plug connectors that have been a swimming, check VR sensor hasn't been wallopped. As frifge says look at everything closely thats been swimming Impressive pics........might nick them and the Video Have you taken any carp into the fuel tank / system / filter ? Keep us informed Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonost24 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 "Have you taken any carp into the fuel tank / system / filter ?" Nige, if there's carp in his tank, he's defo gone wading. I think he's fishing for an answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Al Change plugs for defo, V8 plugs when sooted up misfires or floods can be wounded and play up, but not dead.....lost count how many times starnge things go with new plugs - use NGKBP6RES Also, have you got proper Oil pressure ?.....if not your not only feruk ones engine but the lifters won't be pumping u[p to lift. Lambda - I remove when doing any offroading, you don't need it in there ! Check water in plug connectors that have been a swimming, check VR sensor hasn't been wallopped. As frifge says look at everything closely thats been swimming Impressive pics........might nick them and the Video Have you taken any carp into the fuel tank / system / filter ? Keep us informed Nige everything is dry bar my seat and Arse. All electric connectors were Vaseline'd prior to event. but i have check and checked again. OIl light goes out quickly and engine is sweet and smooth when running... - but wil check with proper pressure oil checker jobby. plugs - is there any other plug always use them new ones at the ready Also magnecor leads all perfect and dry. Plugs cleaned up and to be honest were not very "dirty" but i have a new set so daft not to try...... Vr sensors looks good, timing about where it should be. Lambda removal. as you know i use the truck for a number of things and a fair amount of road mile IOM is tiny so if i took it in and out all the time i'd be fit a fiddle having to get under and back out half a dozen times a week! but you are right.... as always. but but but but but...... ok i will all i do is set something to 0% as mentioned further up! see i listened! Fuel tank. that's a job to do in daylight (weekend then) will double check anything suspect i'll rig up a temp tank to test. Out of interest. Have you seen the price of coil packs from Disco 2, All makes PR2 14 pound new. cheap! genuine aint too bad around £40.worth having as spares anyways. Video and pics, there are some good ones coming through on FaceAche, (facebook) feel free to use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Removing the lambda is not super important - it's more of a worry if you're running a wideband as they are still proper money to replace. I don't think I've ever killed one by wading, they can die from impact, just dropping on the floor is enough to break the element. The clue from your datalog is the truck seems to be running very lean (lambda voltage never gets above about 0.3v) which is why I asked about fuel supply. Megasquirt is good but it can't fix mechanical issues like water in the fuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 It is not clear to me but have you tried running without any lambda correction, just on the base map? That should rule out the sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Removing the lambda is not super important - it's more of a worry if you're running a wideband as they are still proper money to replace. I don't think I've ever killed one by wading, they can die from impact, just dropping on the floor is enough to break the element. The clue from your datalog is the truck seems to be running very lean (lambda voltage never gets above about 0.3v) which is why I asked about fuel supply. Megasquirt is good but it can't fix mechanical issues like water in the fuel This is next on the to do list, drop fuel, look in tank, replace filter and replace. fuel. cheers folks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Of Course the other thing you need to change desperately is Fit new driver OSF Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Duly Nicked, Megasquirt youtube and Website, copied Video so you can't escape it now !! Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 As you can hear on the video i was very ambitious booting her trying to get her to stay on all fours.... but the hole was just too deep..... hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Ok. After spending a fair few hours on her today (only chance i have had due to the weather) this is what i did. Removed tank guard dropped a couple of litres of fuel and no water ingress. Removed In-tank Pump check gauze etc, been meaning to change the pump for a while so did that. Replaced In-likn Fuel Filter. Test No change. Checked all connectors for any sign of water ingress / contamination. all very clean and dry. Checked timing. noticed it was around 1 or 2 degree off but to me it wouldn't cause this fault. and a couple of cups of tea and food, sat in the cab starting it up listening and watching laptop, i noticed the spark was doing anything on the gauge. so loaded a old map and seem to solve this i had the spark map moving again.. but still no better. Then spotted the MAP kpa gauge not acting the way i would expect. Then the Pound droppped! With me laid on the drives side for a little while, i would expect oil to sit at the top of the engine or get into the plenum chamber, It dawned on me that my MAP kpa pick up is on the side of the plenum chamber (drivers side) and NOT T'd on the fuel regulator pipe. so Hmmmm i wounder if oil got in that hose? Removed plenum chamber there is trace of oil there not as much as i'd expect but evidence of oil, So tried to blow down the pipe but not much joy, Pulled pipe out and sat in a bucket of hot water and then put the airline down it! PPPPPPUFFFFFFFFFFFFFF good chunk of oil and clear as a whistle, Put back on and built up the top of the engine again. Turned the Key, fired up...... then died... tried again... died. ok what have i forgotten. Reinspected engine and everything i did. Loaded a a map i know is good. again same result. check for air leaks / missed pipes, re calibrated throttle position. still start rev a little then die..... ARGH GOD DAM! So.... held it of the revs fairly high for a bit looking at gauges etc all looks good now.. then dies.... Ok starting to think hmmmm maybe isnt that must be something else ... Go inside for another cup of tea, slice of cake this time... right getting dark, start it again and PERFECT! give it a handful and ????????? PERFECT!!!! Turn off. start up and Perfect. FIXED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Take a look at the vacuum pipe, a favourite after a session on its side, its probaby sucked up oil or water and that will run through to the ECU and confuse things a lot. Just remove the pipe and look for any contimination first. If it is the problem the you may need a new MAP sensor on the board. A way to avoid it in the future is to get a speciman jar from the chemist and glue 2 pipes in and make a little trap, plus you can clean it and visually inspect it. Done mine a few times. Good luck Just saw your last post sorry, but I'm glad you've sorted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Good thinking on the 'trap'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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