pigster Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 anyway... my wifes car is having troubles starting, doesn't matter if the engine is hot or not. you turn the key the engines turns on (fires if you will) and then dies. doesn't matter if you floor it or not, just kills over. However it does after several attempts start... the number of attempts to get it to start vary though. I assume its a sensor doing this or something? it can not be the immob (I reckon) because it starts up then stops... and the immob shouldn't allow it to do a anything. no extra lights come on the dash (that I know of/ have seen) and I don't know a dicky bird about mx5's.. apart from they are comfier than my landrover and go a shed load quicker. thanks in advance ps - I ahve tried the mx5 forums but there about as usefull as a headache as no one likes to talk to the new boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Is it fuel injected? If so, is the cold start sensor OK? Best get it onto the machine at the stealers, that will tell you if the sensors are all reading correctly. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigster Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 oh yes. 1.8i, cold start sensor - - hmm,, ,and that does what? Is it fuel injected? If so, is the cold start sensor OK? Best get it onto the machine at the stealers, that will tell you if the sensors are all reading correctly.Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 It increases fuelling if the engine is cold (like an automatic choke) Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 As Les said. However, if the sensor is stuffed then the car has no idea if it is warm or cold and can only guess at the right fuelling - finding a mid point I guess. The sensor is usually seperate from the one that drives the guage on the dash. Other horrors may include the air temperature sensor or even the air flow meter - although that is less likely. I guess you have an independant garage? If not then PD motors in Natts Lane industrial estate are good, they used to service my van when worked in Billingshurst. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigster Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 cheers for that guys, Chris - I will keep pd motors in mind, the misses is gona flutter her eyelids at the garage that services the car first to see if she can get it computer tested for free - at which point we can hopefully solve the problem. Apparently according to mazda dealer the computer testing bit doesn't garuantee a fault find of the electrical bits - if so whats the blinking point of it then? It would seem also according to the mazda mob, that it could be either one of two sensors (they didn't say which) or the immobiliser -which weirdly allows the engine to run for 5 - 10seconds before it cuts out - crazy. I have ruled out the coil packs (2 of) because it runs as smooth as when it starts eventually. As Les said. However, if the sensor is stuffed then the car has no idea if it is warm or cold and can only guess at the right fuelling - finding a mid point I guess. The sensor is usually seperate from the one that drives the guage on the dash. Other horrors may include the air temperature sensor or even the air flow meter - although that is less likely.I guess you have an independant garage? If not then PD motors in Natts Lane industrial estate are good, they used to service my van when worked in Billingshurst. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 I have ruled out the coil packs (2 of) because it runs as smooth as when it starts eventually. I think that rules out the cold start stuff too then... If the cold start sensor was kaput, it would be difficult to keep it going until it had warmed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Drop a PM to Steve 90. He has quite a bit of knowledge on vehicle electrics diagnostics. My Subaru 1.8 has occaisionally shown the same problem (intermittent) and he reckons the crankshaft sensor may be at fault since they have had to do that fix on several other Scoobies. I haven't yet fixed it as it only ever seems to happen when my girlfriend is driving :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 I think it's only Land Rover who are suitably imbecillic that they have to have a separate cold start sensor and 9th injector, and even they dropped that setup very quickly. The normal EFi temperature sensor is what tells the EFi how hot the engine is, the ECU usually uses a separate sensor to the dash gauge if there's one part called "sensor" and one called "sender" or "transmitter" then the first one is for the EFi. The reason computer diagnostics don't always work is the ECU won't always know something's faulty - for example if a temp sensor fails short or open circuit then the ECU can tell that's out of range, but if it just sort of sticks at some random value that's within parameters the ECU has no idea that the engine isn't really at that temperature. That's where I'd hope the dealer may have the intelligence to look at the actual values the ECU is reporting (if they can see this) and compare to what it should be. They might charge you money if they have to actually think though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigster Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 that is the second time I have heard that now about the crankshaft sensor.. I thought it was a mechanic trying to be funny... hmmm.... so what does this sensor do then? check to see if its still there or something? Drop a PM to Steve 90. He has quite a bit of knowledge on vehicle electrics diagnostics. My Subaru 1.8 has occaisionally shown the same problem (intermittent) and he reckons the crankshaft sensor may be at fault since they have had to do that fix on several other Scoobies. I haven't yet fixed it as it only ever seems to happen when my girlfriend is driving :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 You probably have one or both of crankshaft and camshaft sensors, they're used to tell the ECU that the engine is spinning (kinda critical) and to get the timing for the coils. They will either be Variable Reluctance (VR) or Hall Effect sensors. The VR ones can be prone to poor wiring/interference as they are a small signal. They also need to be close (~1mm) to the toothed wheel on the crank/cam to read it properly. Edit: Read all about it, Nippondenso toothed wheel decoders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Is your battery strong? My bosses wife runs one of those cars, she had a year of intermittent faults, typical of yours, turned out just to be the battery, apparently they are a small gel filled thing and have a bad reputation, his dealer mentioned that many enthusiasts now opt to replace the battery before winter sets - sales talk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigster Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 Guys I am gratefull for all input on this as the car is a pain in the bottom, as I can not plug a pc into it and get a response that I require - but instead I need to get a garage who wants to charge me £75 plus vat just to say, yeah its a car and yeah it don't work does it. anyone got the software for it.. . I have the lappy and am sure I can make the cable. the battery is fine - -she spins/turns over quicker than a quick thing on speed. are these sensors easy to get at? for swapping out etc etc.. ? and no doubt they are rather expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Have you checked the ignition switch and when a RR or LR does that its normaly the switch on its last legs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjojjas Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 I had one of these for a year, I had very little hassle with it at all except a flat spot that appeared that you couldn't really miss. In the end i took it to an electrical auto tune place. There was a sensor packed up that he sorted for £60 IIR. But I don't remember what the hell it was.... One thing though, theres loads of them on the road, so most places are pretty used to dealing with the electrical side of them. I tried the forums also, but all I ever got there was "whats the best car wax" and "how to add chrome to the interior" type stuff... there good little motors usually Jas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Guys I am gratefull for all input on this as the car is a pain in the bottom, as I can not plug a pc into it and get a response that I require - but instead I need to get a garage who wants to charge me £75 plus vat just to say, yeah its a car and yeah it don't work does it.anyone got the software for it.. . I have the lappy and am sure I can make the cable. the battery is fine - -she spins/turns over quicker than a quick thing on speed. are these sensors easy to get at? for swapping out etc etc.. ? and no doubt they are rather expensive. Is that place still open next to ATS in Horsham? They used to be a Jap car importer and later a performance car centre. Pretty sure that they will be able to help and may be cheaper than the main stealer. Failing that Kevin Griffin cars (the other side of ATS) are very fair and have reasonable labour rates. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nas90 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Is that place still open next to ATS in Horsham? They used to be a Jap car importer and later a performance car centre. Pretty sure that they will be able to help and may be cheaper than the main stealer. Failing that Kevin Griffin cars (the other side of ATS) are very fair and have reasonable labour rates.Chris Chris, would be better to send pigster to see Angus, he has all the electronic gizzmos now and does not charge stealer rates. Mind you probably keep him talking for 3 hours, NI, Iraq, AA, Series LWB.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 are these sensors easy to get at? for swapping out etc etc.. ? and no doubt they are rather expensive. It's japanese - changing the sensor will either require a small child / trained monkey or the engine out The sensors will either be cheap (Ford VR ones are ~£10 new) or horrifically expensive. Look on eBay, all sorts turn up there. If it's VR type then worst case you can swap in something else from another car as it's just a magnetic pickup at the end of the day. Hall effect (3+ wires) may be fussier. Diagnostics I dunno, again scour the interweb and eBlag, once someone works it out it's not long before kits/cables etc. appear for sale. There are several freeware OBD software projects out there too. Some cars you can get diagnostics out of them through flashing dash lights and stuff, the Haynes Book Of Lies may actually help with this but don't quote me on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigster Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 well tomorrow morning I shall no doubt recieve a lovely phone call saying whats gone wrong and how much its gona cost me to sort out... I am sooooo glad LR's are not this technical well my one anyway... my bet is going to go on a sensor being faulty.. which hopefully should mean a little cheaper to fix,, but who knows... shall let you all know tomorrow when I know.. fingers crossed I can source and fix it myself. cheers for all the help and suggestions . ps- time to sell it and buy another LR. makes my life sooo much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigster Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 tests have been done, and it would seem to be the imobiliser(sp)... the computer said there was an error on the device but didn't give a code.. I assume it didn't because it didn't actually fail to start properly when they had it... (ruddy things) but there you go. for now we are going to see how long we can drag it out for before having it properly fixed... as it be expensive. So thanks to you all for helping me out .. and throwing ideas about, and also to Steve 90 - bang on diagnostic, with hardly any info to go on. I am still waiting for both mazda forums to suggest anything, even if it is just to clean the alloy wheels more often.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 A decent auto sparky can remove/bypass/disable the immobiliser for a few quid. Or, if you're bothered about it, get a decent after-market one fitted in it's place - if you get an approved (Thatcham Cat x) one your insurance may drop too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Turner Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 ps- time to sell it and buy another LR. makes my life sooo much easier. Yeah right!!! your not aloud to use the one you've got well only to go to tesco's in Tin hat........b**locks! bring it on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjojjas Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 try Miata.net, there more popular in the states and its an active forum. http://forum.miata.net/vb/ Jas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigster Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 Yeah right!!! your not aloud to use the one you've got well only to go to tesco's in Tin hat........b**locks! bring it on you - -back in your box...... or I shall leave you in a very large muddy watery hole on sunday... stranger things have happened- -- well actually its probably going to be an Audi instead.. I wonder if I could push her to a rs4 now that would be cooooooool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MJG Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I am still waiting for both mazda forums to suggest anything, even if it is just to clean the alloy wheels more often.... Havy you tried delving in here:- http://forum.miata.net/vb/index.php? (Woops just seeen this has been suggested a couple of posts up) it is a godd forum though. It is biased towards towards the USA, but it is the same car and this is where I have found useful mx5 info before. As to the fault I was going to suggest replacing HT leads as these seemingly are prone to breaking down. It cured an intermittent starting problem on Jan's 5 - but I see you have had the problem diagnosed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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