samwilk200 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I've been looking into getting some more suspension travel on my 90, and the easiest way seems to be longer shocks and taller mounts. I like the look of the one's from Gwyn/Llama 4x4, but they seem expensive. As I can fabricate myself, does anyone have any drawings so i could make myself a set of front and rears. This would improve my 90, save me money, and mean that i could have the pleaseure of seeing bits that i've made on my 90. If i am being at all rude or cheeky I dont mean to be. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I have the Gwyn Lewis/Llama 4x4 suspension that you mentioned and have been very impressed so far, for more feedback you could speak to robhybrid or Paul Humphreys on here. Or better yet Gwyn Lewis or David who runs Llama 4x4, they are both on this forum occaisionally As far as making your own goes then Simonr or Nige (HybridFromHell) are worth speaking too, as they have built thier own (along with others), if you search the forum you can probably find the topic about making Nige's Suspension, there is also a video which is worth watching Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samwilk200 Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Thanks, I've tried searching, but cannot find anything about HFH suspension. If anyone has a link to the post please let me know. As far as feedback is concerned, everyone i know who has gwyns kit is very happy, hence i would like to fabricated the same sort of thing myself. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Thanks, I've tried searching, but cannot find anything about HFH suspension. If anyone has a link to the post please let me know.As far as feedback is concerned, everyone i know who has gwyns kit is very happy, hence i would like to fabricated the same sort of thing myself. thanks The front will be easy - just make a turret 2" taller than a standard one.... If you set on making your own for the rear you will either need to literally copy one, which is a bit cheeky, ir design something similar yourself, which is probably easiest made in situ - especially if you are just after a 1 off pair... Buy the shocks ( you know the ones I would suggest ) and fasten them to the axle then with the car on its bumpstop ( remove the spring ) and allowing a bit more for cross articulation make the bracket to suit the compressed length of the shock. Then remember that a similar setup will need a load more work aswell: relocation cones, spring retainers, wide angle propshaft ( on a 90 ) and really cranked rear arms as well to get the most out of it. If I was you I would phone Gwyn for all the brackets and ask him for some shocks to suit ( he does OME and my Rough Country to suit ) and have it all arrive in a big box. I know the pleasure is in the fabrication and proud of your own work but sometimes it is best to get it spot on and tried and tested..... I know: I have caught trout on flies I have tied myself, but not as many as commercially tied ones!! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samwilk200 Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Yes i know that would be easier, I will come to you or gwyn for the shocks anyway! Its just that for £70 for the rear mounts and 50 for the turrets is a lot when i'm trying to afford the full kit. Do you do them bare metal/kit form? I know gwyn does some bits in it form, and thats a good way to save pennies. Otherwise i may have to wait a while! Or you could let me be cheeky and copy your design for myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 On the back of my 90, i took a standard pair of top shock mounts, then cut the tops off so that i had the threaded bit and a little "knuckle" of metal, i then welded this on at the bottom of the mount, near the single fixing bolt (i'll take some pictures if anyones wants to see) So, the result is similar to the scrapiron "extra 2" shock mounts" but for no money! OK, it's no "extreme" suspension package, but it's enough with OME shocks to dislocate some extra HD OME rear springs that have 2" spacers under, so travel is pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 So, the result is similar to the scrapiron "extra 2" shock mounts" but for no money! Yeah,but did you paint them orange? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Just found this post completely by accident whilst looking for something else, may be of some use to you Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Yes i know that would be easier, I will come to you or gwyn for the shocks anyway!Its just that for £70 for the rear mounts and 50 for the turrets is a lot when i'm trying to afford the full kit. Do you do them bare metal/kit form? I know gwyn does some bits in it form, and thats a good way to save pennies. Otherwise i may have to wait a while! Or you could let me be cheeky and copy your design for myself True at first sight they don't seem that cheap but say there's £20 of material in a pair of rear mount plus maybe £10 in consumables and coating. Then there's all the time cycling the suspension to test everything works as it should. The likelihood is that the Mk 1 won't be quite right and you'll need to make an Evo version (another £20) and if the geometry was wrong you may well have broken a shock too (add that to the price too...). Add a few more hours of fab work and then the mounts start to look quite cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Does this explain why your Landy is taking so long to see the light of day Will? You were going to have it almost finnished by the LRO show, surely it must be days away from breaking cover by now? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 but Samwilk wants to make them himself (go for it fella) and without experimentation nothing ever advances - theres merit in both sides of the arguement (buy or build) but shifting suspension mounts about isnt an irreversible nightmare, get a tape measure, do the maths, build the parts, repeat IF necessary. Gain monster satisfaction from doing it yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Does this explain why your Landy is taking so long to see the light of day Will? You were going to have it almost finnished by the LRO show, surely it must be days away from breaking cover by now? Chris Chris, I think the real reason the truck's not getting done is because I haven't seen it in 2 months! I'm itching to get working in it again as I SOOOOOOOO want to drive it. I've got major withdrawl symptoms I've got no option but to build my own shockmounts as nothing off the shelf even remotely fits / does what I want it to. As Jez said; its not rocket science but you just need to make sure shocks don't bottom out and that the mounts are designed so the shock mounts don't bind up (putting load on the shocks) when the axle articulates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Chris, I think the real reason the truck's not getting done is because I haven't seen it in 2 months! I'm itching to get working in it again as I SOOOOOOOO want to drive it. I've got major withdrawl symptoms I've got no option but to build my own shockmounts as nothing off the shelf even remotely fits / does what I want it to. As Jez said; its not rocket science but you just need to make sure shocks don't bottom out and that the mounts are designed so the shock mounts don't bind up (putting load on the shocks) when the axle articulates. As Jez says DIY gives you a grin, and you can have exactly what you want. Theres load to see as a guide, but beware the "3 bears enginnering" that I often end up with : 1st one too small 2nd one too big 3rd maybe just right When I mentioned this to Moglite he PHSL and said he knew EXACTLY what I meant - this can also push the costs up Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samwilk200 Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share Posted November 23, 2006 Thanks for all the replies. I think i will build the mounts, then get shocks to suit, probably pro comps. What the best mount for the rear shock, pin/pin or pin/eye. I would have thought that eye at the top would be better because it allows the shock to rotate more freely, but the likes of gwyn and WPE use pin mounts, why?! And would 50x6 flat be strong enough for front turrets?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Thanks for all the replies. I think i will build the mounts, then get shocks to suit, probably pro comps.What the best mount for the rear shock, pin/pin or pin/eye. I would have thought that eye at the top would be better because it allows the shock to rotate more freely, but the likes of gwyn and WPE use pin mounts, why?! And would 50x6 flat be strong enough for front turrets?! 50x6 will be plenty strong enough for the front.... The eye at the top of the rear hinges perfectly but cannot flex so well across the vegicle - essential for crodd axle articulation..... the other way of seeing this requirement is to look at D44's new swivel mount where it uses the eye to pivot for crossaxle and the mount itself swivels for arc. I strongly suggest getting the shocks first and making the brackets to suit for a number of reasons... The obvious one is that there may not be a shock available that fits your open / compressed length perfectly mening you will have to risk damage to it or restrict some of its travel... Another more obscure one but ask anyone who has had any of my Rough Country ones so far and they will tell you the same: whilst any shock absorber will do the job, one that is valved for something completely different will not damp as well as one that is tailor made for an application. Whilst most aftermarket shocks have several stage sensing valving that encompasses the LR vehicle within this range you mat be very near to the outer edge of this band... A shock that is tailor valved for LR vehicles will overall give far better damping to that vehicle than one that happens to be the right length but is for a completelu different car but has had LR style mountings welded to it. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 And would 50x6 flat be strong enough for front turrets?! Yes, plenty strong enough I use eye,eye mounts, as the pin can be a bit restrictive at the axle end, when you have a lot of articulation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Yes, plenty strong enoughI use eye,eye mounts, as the pin can be a bit restrictive at the axle end, when you have a lot of articulation I run Gwyns kit and think its very good. But I am looking into changing the rears so I can fit longer shocks. As for the top mounting point. I have thought that it would be possible to use eye ones by turning the top 90 degrees so as the axle moved it will allow the shock to move more. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samwilk200 Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share Posted November 23, 2006 DAVID, Is there any reason, other that space, why you cannot/do not use even longer travel shocks? I.E. why arnt the front turrets plus 4"?! thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 DAVID,Is there any reason, other that space, why you cannot/do not use even longer travel shocks? I.E. why arnt the front turrets plus 4"?! thanks No reason at all I suppose - they would then take much longer shocks and they could stick out through the bonnet if they had to the idea remains the same.... The one reason I chose to sell Gwyn's bracketry was the simplicity of a system that offers so much: The shock is the same part in all 4 corners making spares at your end and stock at my end much easier to manage. Any more travel than this setup allows really does need a hell of a lot more work. It already reaches the limits of propshafts, a-frame ball joints and radius arms. Whilst all of these can be improved upon firther with rose joints, longer arms, 3 links etc., etc. it just starts moving the costs higher and higher. The rear shock bracket also angles the damper giving far more travel than the 11" shock would give in the vertical position. The pin offers more than enough movement as long as you don't do the bushes so tight that the poor thing can't move. These bushes need only be tight enough to prevent up and down slop - loose enough for the unit to rotate in them is enough for them to work properly as a bush and not restrict movement. Again you can go further with swivels and rose joints and things but I believe that this kit goes as far as the rest of the car can cope with anyway unless you want to do loads more work / money so why change from the mountings that can cope anyway... Quite simply I think that this is a perfect match of excellant articultion on a car that remains both useable and reliable. If you go any further than this setup allows you are reacjhing too far into the offroad side of the compromise and it wll end up being trailered everywhere 'cos it is too much of a pig to drive on the road at anything over 30mph! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 DAVID,Is there any reason, other that space, why you cannot/do not use even longer travel shocks? I.E. why arnt the front turrets plus 4"?! thanks Its also a combination of canister length - as you go longer and longer fully extended so the cannister length increases, so you have to increase turrey height, when you do this its a balance between gains on suspension vs losses vs height, the really long shocks can have immense cannisters so compression is them a problem.ie even with your +2 turrets, the shocks you can fit will very in cannister length, and fittment - fitment can again lose you travel, ie converting a pin to a loop means in real terms you have just increased the cannister length / fully closed overall length, so you have to raise the top mount to compensate, now you have lost travel....you need to do some serious research not to end up with a mess - the GL kit is a good compromise for an off the shelf part saving you hours of reasearch, fab time, and general fr**ing out - and its prob good value too ? Its one of those nightmare areas thats seems easy - until you start tinkering then you open a HUGE can of worms Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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