xychix Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Interesting problem. My 2.25di ran sort of fine. (bit of black smoke when at work) Now suddenly it has issues with a warm start. A ~5 seconds start after 10 Secs of glowing does the coldstart just fine (even after not moving for 2 months) 2x this procedure works in winter time. Warm start never was an issue until today, and once it is running I can put the throttle to the floor and it will slightly rev a bit, after ~5 km's of driving it gets slowly better and when back home the engine seemed it's old self. Turned off, started straight away, no problem, good revs Left it off for 30 minutes, hard start and same problem (filmed the behaviour, can upload that later). Full throttle slightly increases revs, flooring it for 30 seconds just keeps it at the (I'd guess 1000 rpm) same low max. Car is idling now and will let it Idle for 15 minutes and floor it again. Any idea's? Is it telling me it wants a 200di 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 It sounds like you have a fuel delivery problem and the system is taking a while to purge the air out. Check the pipes for splits and chafing, rubber hoses for perishing and all joints for security. Tiny leaks won't let fuel out, so no tell-tale wet spot, but will let air in, which breaks the vacuum when the engine is off, allowing fuel to drain back down to the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 It sounds like you have a fuel delivery problem and the system is taking a while to purge the air out. Check the pipes for splits and chafing, rubber hoses for perishing and all joints for security. Tiny leaks won't let fuel out, so no tell-tale wet spot, but will let air in, which breaks the vacuum when the engine is off, allowing fuel to drain back down to the tank. Thanks, woulds like a bugger to find but no complicated stuff Is there a smart way to pressurise those lines a bit so I can go find leaks with soapy water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 You could use a tyre pump with a football or airbed valve adaptor taped into the fuel tank feed connection, with the tank return line clamped or blocked off and the "stop handle" pushed in so the fuel system is in the "run" valve position. I wouldn't want to pressurise the system much, though, as most of it is meant to be at atmospheric pressure, only the pumps, lift pump to injection pump and steel injector pipes being pressurised. If you overload the rest of the system, you could blow low pressure unions apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I had this on my first 109, It turned out to be the injector pump. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 I had this on my first 109, It turned out to be the injector pump. Les ouch, that sounds less funny... was it just a seal or a full item replacement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 We found a problem like this to be a tiny hole in the fuel pipe near the engine that got bigger when the engine warmed up. And yes, we are fitting a 200 Tdi at the moment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 A quick following of the fuel lines identified the following suspects. 1 - A return hose (from front to 2nd cyl.) that looks to have a tiny leak, just is about to get a leak. 2 - There seems to be a manual pump under the fuel pump ??? it's covered in oil so I cant determine exacly what it is, but as it has the main fuel line from the tank going to it I'd guess it's a diesel lift pump??? 3 - and last but not least... a 2nd fuelfilter along the chassis rail that likely never got serviced. It LOOKS as if it belongs to the 2 not used tanks under the seats, but actually the main fuel line goes trough it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 The symptoms all point to fuel starvation so , apart from checking the tank cap breather is clear ,It might be worth cracking the bleed screw on top of the fuel filter at tickover to check the lift pump is working - should squirt out at tickover and if good , fit new fuel filters and bleed through using the little manual lever you found under the lift pump , once it's coming out of the filter close bleed screw then release the two 8mm head screws on the IP and pump again on manual lever til it squirts out , close off and it should fire up - if not loosening an injector pipe at the injector will clear any remaining air . It can be a bit of a faff to get all the air out , but the above should do the job . cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 The symptoms all point to fuel starvation so , apart from checking the tank cap breather is clear ,It might be worth cracking the bleed screw on top of the fuel filter at tickover to check the lift pump is working - should squirt out at tickover and if good , fit new fuel filters and bleed through using the little manual lever you found under the lift pump , once it's coming out of the filter close bleed screw then release the two 8mm head screws on the IP and pump again on manual lever til it squirts out , close off and it should fire up - if not loosening an injector pipe at the injector will clear any remaining air . It can be a bit of a faff to get all the air out , but the above should do the job . cheers Steveb It's only after a hot start, just did a cold start and rev's right away..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 When were both filters last changed ? Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 lol, the one i just found out today that it's inline (one on the chassis rail likely isn't changed since the first owner years and years. Just odd that the problem just popped up and seems to be only on hotstart. Well decided to go for it, just removed all doors. - need new outriggers for front of rear leafsprings, already new in box in shed) - check fuel lines - check chassis - place zeus disc conversion - new master and slave clutch cilinders - partially new wiring - welding repair on rear crossmember - oil leak fixes (swivels, enginge and both gearboxes) - replump the 2 army underseats fuel tanks. (maybe just with an electric pump to fill main tank or something fail-proof - All 4 doors need work on the chassis - new 2nd row of seats (no one now) - new front seats (currrent ones are rotten) - new / repair heating - new switch for wipers - rewire and fuses behind dash (include fuses for headlights) ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 And, what will you do next week? G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 And, what will you do next week? G. on holiday with the kids next week First aiming to lift the rear to weld on the outriggers and patch the rearcrossmember. As soon as that is done together with a good look at the fuel lines the tub can be back on and the rest can hopefully be a rolling restauration. Not going for showroom condition. And IF the chassis appears worse than it looks now I'd rather know that asap. This plan was there already for a while. This fuel issue pushed me over the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Mine looked ok. No leaks or anything. It ran fine when cold but got worse as the engine warmed up. Going everywhere at 20mph was a right pain. I got a recon pump and it was fine after that. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 Mine looked ok. No leaks or anything. It ran fine when cold but got worse as the engine warmed up. Going everywhere at 20mph was a right pain. I got a recon pump and it was fine after that. Les. lift pump or main pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Injector pump. If the lift pump fails, then unless there's air in the system you don't notice it. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 It could be worth throwing a can of fuel system cleaner in a half full tank and running around until near empty to clean the system through, especially the injectors. I'd do it after replacing the filters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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