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My series 3 200TDI


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#1 rjblank

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 05:44 AM

My old series 3 had a smokey 2.25 diesel and a top speed of 53 miles an hour (downhill) I just completed (yesterday) a 200TDI conversion (yes, another one) but this Disco engine install is slightly different, hence this post. I owe a huge Thank You to my friend Richard, at Glencoyne Engineering, and his assistant, Adam, for their help. Without them, this effort would not have been possible. Glencoyne's experience in 200DI conversions was invaluable.

"Ok, so what's so different?" you ask... I used the Disco engine mounts, a series radiator, 300TDI intercooler and seperate oil cooler. Other than that, nothing really... My series radiator is in excellent shape and I didn't want to lose it. Besides, it's bigger and theoretically, would cool better (especially with the large cooling fan).

Along the way, I rebuilt the series gearbox, replacing two slightly worn gears and an Ashcroft's high range transfer box.

The only thing I would have done different is the chasis side of the engine mounts... I used old Disco mounts that were lying around, and cut them for what I needed. In retrospect, It would have been easier to use square tubing fron the chassis rail for mounting the disco mounts (like I wanted to from the beginning, but got in a hurry and used what I had around). I know the old mounts would "work" , but the engine vibration transfer to the chassis is too much. With the Discxo mounts, it is so much smoother... now to get my shifter handle to stop vibrating...


I'll have the exhaust pics uploaded soon...

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#2 rjblank

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 05:55 AM

Here are the exhaust pics. I exited the turbo over the chassis rail, through the bulkhead support, under the outrigger in front of the rear wheel (to Grandmother's house we go). It's 2 1/4 ID pipewith a vibration dampening flexi joint. I have to go shoot some more pics of the finished install and post them. I was too tired last night to photograph it.

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#3 Mark

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 08:05 AM

That looks very tidy. It is really noticeable how much lower the engine sits in a series chassis...

Cheers
Mark
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[O]====[O] '91 200 Tdi Disco (RIP) & '96 300 Tdi Disco

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#4 kingdong

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 12:49 PM

My old series 3 had a smokey 2.25 diesel and a top speed of 53 miles an hour (downhill) I just completed (yesterday) a 200TDI conversion (yes, another one) but this Disco engine install is slightly different, hence this post. I owe a huge Thank You to my friend Richard, at Glencoyne Engineering, and his assistant, Adam, for their help. Without them, this effort would not have been possible. Glencoyne's experience in 200DI conversions was invaluable.

"Ok, so what's so different?" you ask... I used the Disco engine mounts, a series radiator, 300TDI intercooler and seperate oil cooler. Other than that, nothing really... My series radiator is in excellent shape and I didn't want to lose it. Besides, it's bigger and theoretically, would cool better (especially with the large cooling fan).

Along the way, I rebuilt the series gearbox, replacing two slightly worn gears and an Ashcroft's high range transfer box.

The only thing I would have done different is the chasis side of the engine mounts... I used old Disco mounts that were lying around, and cut them for what I needed. In retrospect, It would have been easier to use square tubing fron the chassis rail for mounting the disco mounts (like I wanted to from the beginning, but got in a hurry and used what I had around). I know the old mounts would "work" , but the engine vibration transfer to the chassis is too much. With the Discxo mounts, it is so much smoother... now to get my shifter handle to stop vibrating...


I'll have the exhaust pics uploaded soon...

Hi rjblank

would all that go inside a 2a radiator panel as i don't wan't the s3 look

cheers gee



#5 rjblank

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 03:51 PM

not entirely... the intercooler will not fit. all else will. You would have to modify an intercooler to fit sideways and the inlet/outlets moved on the intercooler. as it is now, it's a tight fit

#6 western

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 04:29 PM

have look in the Series or Tech Archive as Les Henson modified a 200Tdi Defender intercooler [my old one] to fit into his then project Series 3 88".
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#7 rjblank

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 04:31 PM

I was going to mod a 200TDI intercooler to fit, but the 300 is nearly a straight in fit.

#8 rjblank

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 11:42 AM

I finally had a chance to drive it home. WOW what a difference. I have to downshift to third at 30 mph. It's a little too slow for 4th. Just a few more things to sort out...

I still have some cleanup in the engine bay to do; new oil cooler lines to be fabricated, and a final mounting location for the air cleaner on the right side in front of the engine...(excuse the zip ties, it was just to get her home). :blink:

It's alot quieter than the old engine and has just a TAD more power. :lol: I finally reached 60 mph for the first time today! WOO HOO! The floor on the passenger side stays nice and cool, even with the exhaust being so close. It may change in the "British Summer" :lol:

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#9 Dunc

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 01:05 PM

Looks great, well done.
A Series L/R with actual power is a joy to behold. Makes me miss mine!
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#10 tuko

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 08:24 PM

Hej RJ,
nice job with the engine conversion.

The only thing I would have done different is the chasis side of the engine mounts... I used old Disco mounts that were lying around, and cut them for what I needed. In retrospect, It would have been easier to use square tubing fron the chassis rail for mounting the disco mounts (like I wanted to from the beginning, but got in a hurry and used what I had around). I know the old mounts would "work" , but the engine vibration transfer to the chassis is too much. With the Discxo mounts, it is so much smoother...



Can you post a pic or two of your engine mounts, especially on the oil filter side. Plus of the entire exhaust, I'm assuming it's all custom now.

Like what has been mentioned earlier, the engine does sit lower. Have you noticed if there will be any issues with the oil pan and the front diff and or prop shaft?


Top marks on a top job!


Cheers,
Todd.

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#11 rjblank

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 09:27 PM

Engine mounts...
The engine side of the mounts are original Disco units. The mounting rubbers are original and unmodified. The frame side would have worked better with 3 inch square tubing, but I used flat steel with reinforcing because I didn't have the tubing. :blink: Attached are the pics to date, I'll have to take more this week.

Driveshaft clearance,
I have looked at the 200DI conversions that Glencoyne has done, and the closest driveshaft I saw had the gaiter clamp that could foul on the oil pipe. Moving the gaiter clamp further down the shaft resolved the issue. I haven't installed my front prop shaft yet... :o I was in a hurry to get the truck home. I have family in town this week and will not have much time to work on it, and the space I was taking up was needed at the shop...

Alternator...
I used the Disco alternator... turns out it is faulty, and needs to be replaced. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong, and it turns out the brushes that contact the rotor are bad. I have the new alternator, and should have it in next weekend (after my loving family member leaves)

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#12 Jon White

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 09:53 PM

On mine which was previously a 2.25 petrol, I just used the series engine mounts. They bolt straight up to the discovery engine. No cutting or welding required.

I moved the oil return in the side of the sump as I decided it was too close for comfort to the front propshaft.
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#13 rjblank

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 07:29 PM

Yes, I know they do bolt up, but they are not "beefy" enough to dampen the engine vibrations, and they have a tendancy to relocate everthing that isn't bolted down, and some things that are :o .

#14 MECCANO

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 09:14 AM

You use 200tdi engine rubbers (with a bit of trimming as they are bigger) on the stock series mounts... To be honest if itís good enough for a 90. Its going to be fine for a super deluxe comfy series.

Personally I donít like the type of mounts used on the disco engines as from experience on other vehicles they tend to allow a lot of flex once they are "worn-in". So require more clearance/ clonking room.

I believe they also reverted back to a more solid style mount on the 300tdi.

#15 Monster

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 04:48 PM

In retrospect, It would have been easier to use square tubing fron the chassis rail for mounting the disco mounts (like I wanted to from the beginning, but got in a hurry and used what I had around). I know the old mounts would "work" , but the engine vibration transfer to the chassis is too much. With the Disco mounts, it is so much smoother... now to get my shifter handle to stop vibrating...


Nice work. Pretty fast too! I was waiting to see your results but didnt think it was going to be this quick.

I agree about the defender mounts transferring too much vibration also, which is why i am planning to use disco rubber.

Could you elaborate on the square tubing you mentioned. I need to make up some brackets for my install and don't have that many disco chassis knocking about! You also suggest it is the better option.

How far away from the original mounts did the new mounts go?

Does the disco engine mounts have to be vertical? Could they be placed at an angle so they just drop into the angled mounts of the series type? (I have a galvanised chassis that i hope to install a 200tdi).

I see Meccano suggests too much float on 200tdi mounts and this was the reason for a change on the 300tdi mounts. Am i correct in thinking that the 300tdi engine mounts wont fit on a 200tdi engine?

Look forward to all your thoughts.

#16 rjblank

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 09:56 PM

Thanks to all for the kind words. It felt like it was taking forever to get complete. I spent 2 1/2 weeks working on the truck... After driving it home, it was time and money well spent. :i-m_so_happy: Along the way, though, I learned how to rebuild the gearbox and the transfer box, break those blasted bolts holding the timing cover in place, have the footwells fixed, replace the slipping clutch and the mosquito smoker 2.25 diesel... I also have the desperately needed new exhaust (mine was quite rusty, and little)

I'll have more pics up this weekend with better views of the full exhaust and the engine mounts. I'll also be working on the relocation of the disco air cleaner to the right side wing in the engine bay. I have family in town this week, and can't play with my toys until they leave... :(

The Disco mounts do require removing the series mounts from the chassis. I've looked at it a number of ways, and it always comes back the same. Leaving the existing mounting points on the frame will interfere with the engine side of the disco mounts. Over the next couple of weeks, I plan to work with Glencoyne to design a "bolt-in" frame mount using Disco mounting rubbers. They could also be welded in place as well... Maybe someone will want to try a set out and save me cutting my newly welded mounts off of my frame. I'll post pics when I have them ready and the dimentions for those lucky to have a welder. I'm a simple person and believe in simple designs... :D

The intent of the bolt-in concept was to have a mount that can bolt into a galvanized chassis because most people who have one do not want to start cutting pieces off leaving exposed metal for rust to make itself at home. It makes perfect sense to me. I just need to play with it a bit to see if I can work it out. :lol: The first sets will not be galvanized, but if demand for them starts, maybe we'll have some galvanized...

To be honest, I haven't looked close at the 300TDI mounts. I just "assumed" that since the 300 TDI is a smoother running engine that the mounts may not dampen enough of the vibration of the 200TDI. I know, it's wrong to assume... I may buy a set of 300 mounts and see how well they work on another 200 motor in a series chassis. Has anyone already done this and can speak to it?

I haven't noticed much float on my mounts, but can understand what Meccano is suggesting. I'll have to look for some worn rubber and bolt them up for a test.

Time for bed... tomorrow is another tour and a trip to market day... oh the joy... :offtopic:

#17 rjblank

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 08:10 PM

Here are a few more exhaust pictures for those that are interested... pardon the welding,

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#18 tuko

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 11:02 AM

To add to the 300Tdi motor mounts, here is pictures fo the left had side mount. I could have swore that I had the both mounts, but this is the only one that I could find in short order. As far as I know, you can not use the 300Tdi mounts on a 200Tdi engine.

I'm of the same thinking that I don't want to damage the galvanized frame that I have, BUT I'm starting to think that if your using several pieces that might not be welded together, your going to risk that they will loosen in time and do more damage than good. To really get a better picture, one would have to lift a 300Tdi into the engine compartment and see for theirselves.

Also with the 300Tdi being a more of a refined motor than the 200Tdi, I do wonder if you really need so heavy motor mounts? Or is it because of these large motor mounts, that the engine appears to be so much smoother ?


Todd.

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#19 David Sparkes

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 11:51 AM

Thanks Tuko for those pictures.
My analysis of them is that the basic mount (the rubber block) isn't as 'sophisticated' as the 200TDi mount, BUT the problem of excessive movement given by an absorbant (soft) rubber has been dealt with by a combination of the extra rubber ears and the metal cage provided by the engine bracket.

Thus, in a non-standard installation, using just the 300TDi rubber mount seems easier to accomodate than it first appears.
As an extra, either the excessive movement could be accepted (until proved damaging), or a standard engine bracket could be modified by adding a similar cage.
Thus I'm thinking that the 300TDi rubber, may be more suitable to use in a Series installation, compared to starting with a 200TDi 'rubber', which appears to be like a Metalastic bush.

As you say, a physical inspection / comparison has to be the next step.

Cheers

#20 rjblank

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 01:37 PM

I finally had a chance to get back to the Series... I worked out my air cleaner issue... No more tie straps holding it to the intake... the bonnet wouldn't close fully either, so it couldn't stay there...
just a few more things to sort out in the engine bay... A place for the radiator expansion tank and the windshield washer bottle. :blink: I just realized how I really need to get in and clean everything... but... Right now, form follows function. I need it to be my primary transportation... my little red beater has sprung a leak in the hydro suspension and I really don't want to fix it. The scrap yard is more than happy to take care of it... :lol:

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