Defender Webasto install thread

[poohbear]

Hi all,

well here goes - my first documented 'install' thread - comments welcome, just be kind.

With winter coming and an urban commute of around 5 miles in each direction the truck just does not come anywhere near reaching 'normal' operating temperature. So with an eye on clear windows, better mpg and a comfortable cab I decided to try and install a diesel fired engine pre-heater. I went for a Webasto over an Eberspacher simply because the right one came up at the right time on e-bay.

I managed to get an early 90's Webasto Thermotop DW50 - a 5Kw diesel fired coolant heater, with it's own coolant and fuel pumps integrated into the unit. It also came with a full (and intact) wiring harness, all the exhaust and inlet piping, a silencer and a programmable timer the original installtion/operation manual and a free puddle of old diesel to boot. The vehicle is a '91 reg defender 110 CSW 200tdi.

The first decision to make was where to mount the heater. The ideal location is on the passenger side near the heater matrix making coolant flow & return hoses easily accessible. However on my vehicle the washer bottle is mounted here.

So first job was to get a new under wing bottle for the screenwash:

And then add the two washer pumps scavenged from the original bottle:

The plus side to mounting the pumps here is that the original wiring does not need modifying in any way - however as the pumps are not self priming you have to make sure that the system cannot drain back and that you don't let the tank run dry - although I'm pretty sure my teeth wont need whitening for a month or two screenwash is an aquired taste. The existing hoses needed a judicial application of heat to make them pliable enough to connect to new fittings.

So here we have a new the screenwash system sorted and old bottle removed:

Next job is to mount the heater:

With the heater position sorted I moved onto plumbing the air inlet and exhaust as once the coolant hoses were plumbed this would be near on impossible:

Silencer is mounted to inner wing on 'slightly' modified existing bracket and exhaust runs out under inner wing and drops out just in front of outrigger:

Fresh air comes in roughly in line with engine mount also mounted to inner wing under the engine air intake hose. The biggest challenge here was trying to keep the exhaust away from wiring, the clutch hydraulic hose, the rubber inner wing mud guard bit and the engine air intake hose. I also noticed later that the exhaust run was directly under the fuel inlet and return. Being slightly concerned about the possibility of leaking fuel dripping onto the exhaust I fitted a splash cover to the bracket meaning any lost fuel drains harmlessly away - this was fashioned from an old milk container!

With these hoses now in place I could move onto plumbing the coolant hoses - run in 16mm as per the original LR hoses. Most people seem to splice into the coolant flow at the heater matrix. I decided to ignore the hose from the heater matrix back to the thermostat housing that runs in a metal pipe along the head and did a direct run instead:

I ran the truck for a few days like this to confirm coolant flow was OK - heater is plumbed post heater matrix and pre engine, to heat the engine first and then the heater matrix (The DW50 has a clever trick whereby you splice a relay into the vehicles heater fan and when the coolant reaches a certain temp it switches on the fan to demist/heat the cab - You can plumb the heater in depending on whether you want a hot engine or hot cab first!).

Next job was fuel - hampered only by slow delivery (fuel line was an ebay special from Turkey!) and a faulty check valve. Fuel supply was teed off tank feed just before lift pump and return is teed in spill line from back of FIP - I used a check valve to prevent lift pump sucking fuel back from heater when the engine is engine running and an in line filter for good measure. As the DW50 has a flow and return fuel line it was easy to prime the fuel system by 'suction' on the fuel return line (I can confirm that diesel does indeed taste worse than screenwash):

Webasto fuel line is 2mm ID - terminated with 5mm fuel hose, the rest of the fuel system is run in 8mm.

This just left the wiring to go -

As I mentioned earlier the DW50 came with a fully intact loom with just five terminations to make -

The main +ve/ground for 12v supply, 2 cables to splice into the vehicle heater fan wiring and an additional ground for the fan relay. the only other wiring was a cable to the timer which was already terminated.

Fuse/relay and wire wound resistor for fan where mounted to bulkhead using threaded inserts:

I used one of the mounting bolts as the ground terminal, the positive runs directly back to the battery following the same cable route as the starter cables. The fan connections are yet to be terminated but will just run along the top of the bulkhead with other looms. The timer cable goes through the bulkhead grommet following an existing cable route and once the dash was stripped out appears adjacent to the rear wash wipe switch:

Yes I know the timer is on the wonk - it was late and I was working by headtorch! This will be moved once I have decided what to do with the centre console - probably a mudstuff jobbie in he summer.

The only problem with the electrics was that the lid of the fuse box was too big and fowled the rain gutter on the bulkhead - five minutes with the junior hacksaw and a tube of super-glue solved that one:

Before:

Ta-da:

I have had the heater running today - started up and ran straight away without any issues. Sounds like a bloody harrier trying to take off when it's on full whack! Timer works great and with today's ambient temperature had the coolant up to temp in about 15/20 minutes.

The only thing I would change straight away is where the exhaust runs as I do get some fumes in the cab when stationary.

This was a very straight forward - I did it over a succession of evenings usually no more than an hour and a half at a go depending on domestic duties/unsettled children. If you are prepared to spend out a bit more on the washer bottle solution event that is plug and play!

Over all I'm a very happy bunny

Summary of parts used (not in any particular order and I've probably forgotten something) -

washer bottle mod:

Under wing washer bottle (£26.00)

Washer hose (5m)

non return valves x 2

tee-piece

32mm rubber lined hose clamps x 2 (should only be 30mm but I guessed wrong!)

Webasto Install:

Webasto 2mm fuel hose (5m)

16mm ID coolant hose (2m)

8mm fuel hose (2m)

5mm Fuel hose (1m)

13-15mm jubilee clamps (some)

15-17mm jubilee clamps (some)

small fuel hose clamps (can't remember exact size but small enough to grip down on 5mm fuel hose)

25mm rubber lined hose clamps

8mm non return (check valve)

5/8mm fuel filter

8mm Tee-piece x2

Various electrical bits - crimps/heatshrink.fuse carrier/cable ties

Plus a plentiful supply of hot tea and a dictionary of technical swear words.

[western]

Great work, could you make the photo's bigger or link them to somewhere like a flickr or photobucket account, just that when clicked on the photo's don't enlarge so the detail can be seen.

I've put a link in the tech archive to under this title Fitting Webasto Thermotop DW50 into a 90/110.

Edited November 11, 2011 by western

[poohbear]

Thanks Western -

I was struggling with the pictures late last night and to be honest gave up and went to bed. I'll have another go tonight.

Dave.

[Mo Murphy]

Good write up Dave, very useful

Thanks for taking the time to do it.

Mo

[Anderzander]

Yes - good write up - but the same issue with the photos! so tiny I can't see what's what.

[poohbear]

OK - so pictures are a good size in the gallery, but when the URL is copied into the thread the size is far too small - any html whizz kids out there that can help point out my school boy error?

Also how do I edit the original post?

Dave.

Edited November 11, 2011 by poohbear

[CwazyWabbit]

OK - so pictures are a good size in the gallery, but when the URL is copied into the thread the size is far too small - any html whizz kids out there that can help point out my school boy error?

Also how do I edit the original post?

Dave.

It looks like you are using the url for a thumbnail rather than the image, I could be wrong though. Do you have a link to the gallery where the images are as I can't find it.....

There is a time limit during which time you can edit a post, after that time limit you have to get a mod to do it.

[CwazyWabbit]

That's what you are after..

delete the tn_ part of the filename in your original image urls and you get the big picture

[CwazyWabbit]

I hope you don't mind.....

Hi all,

well here goes - my first documented 'install' thread - comments welcome, just be kind.

With winter coming and an urban commute of around 5 miles in each direction the truck just does not come anywhere near reaching 'normal' operating temperature. So with an eye on clear windows, better mpg and a comfortable cab I decided to try and install a diesel fired engine pre-heater. I went for a Webasto over an Eberspacher simply because the right one came up at the right time on e-bay.

I managed to get an early 90's Webasto Thermotop DW50 - a 5Kw diesel fired coolant heater, with it's own coolant and fuel pumps integrated into the unit. It also came with a full (and intact) wiring harness, all the exhaust and inlet piping, a silencer and a programmable timer the original installtion/operation manual and a free puddle of old diesel to boot. The vehicle is a '91 reg defender 110 CSW 200tdi.

The first decision to make was where to mount the heater. The ideal location is on the passenger side near the heater matrix making coolant flow & return hoses easily accessible. However on my vehicle the washer bottle is mounted here.

So first job was to get a new under wing bottle for the screenwash:

And then add the two washer pumps scavenged from the original bottle:

The plus side to mounting the pumps here is that the original wiring does not need modifying in any way - however as the pumps are not self priming you have to make sure that the system cannot drain back and that you don't let the tank run dry - although I'm pretty sure my teeth wont need whitening for a month or two screenwash is an aquired taste. The existing hoses needed a judicial application of heat to make them pliable enough to connect to new fittings.

So here we have a new the screenwash system sorted and old bottle removed:

Next job is to mount the heater:

With the heater position sorted I moved onto plumbing the air inlet and exhaust as once the coolant hoses were plumbed this would be near on impossible:

Silencer is mounted to inner wing on 'slightly' modified existing bracket and exhaust runs out under inner wing and drops out just in front of outrigger:

Fresh air comes in roughly in line with engine mount also mounted to inner wing under the engine air intake hose. The biggest challenge here was trying to keep the exhaust away from wiring, the clutch hydraulic hose, the rubber inner wing mud guard bit and the engine air intake hose. I also noticed later that the exhaust run was directly under the fuel inlet and return. Being slightly concerned about the possibility of leaking fuel dripping onto the exhaust I fitted a splash cover to the bracket meaning any lost fuel drains harmlessly away - this was fashioned from an old milk container!

With these hoses now in place I could move onto plumbing the coolant hoses - run in 16mm as per the original LR hoses. Most people seem to splice into the coolant flow at the heater matrix. I decided to ignore the hose from the heater matrix back to the thermostat housing that runs in a metal pipe along the head and did a direct run instead:

I ran the truck for a few days like this to confirm coolant flow was OK - heater is plumbed post heater matrix and pre engine, to heat the engine first and then the heater matrix (The DW50 has a clever trick whereby you splice a relay into the vehicles heater fan and when the coolant reaches a certain temp it switches on the fan to demist/heat the cab - You can plumb the heater in depending on whether you want a hot engine or hot cab first!).

Next job was fuel - hampered only by slow delivery (fuel line was an ebay special from Turkey!) and a faulty check valve. Fuel supply was teed off tank feed just before lift pump and return is teed in spill line from back of FIP - I used a check valve to prevent lift pump sucking fuel back from heater when the engine is engine running and an in line filter for good measure. As the DW50 has a flow and return fuel line it was easy to prime the fuel system by 'suction' on the fuel return line (I can confirm that diesel does indeed taste worse than screenwash):

Webasto fuel line is 2mm ID - terminated with 5mm fuel hose, the rest of the fuel system is run in 8mm.

This just left the wiring to go -

As I mentioned earlier the DW50 came with a fully intact loom with just five terminations to make -

The main +ve/ground for 12v supply, 2 cables to splice into the vehicle heater fan wiring and an additional ground for the fan relay. the only other wiring was a cable to the timer which was already terminated.

Fuse/relay and wire wound resistor for fan where mounted to bulkhead using threaded inserts:

I used one of the mounting bolts as the ground terminal, the positive runs directly back to the battery following the same cable route as the starter cables. The fan connections are yet to be terminated but will just run along the top of the bulkhead with other looms. The timer cable goes through the bulkhead grommet following an existing cable route and once the dash was stripped out appears adjacent to the rear wash wipe switch:

Yes I know the timer is on the wonk - it was late and I was working by headtorch! This will be moved once I have decided what to do with the centre console - probably a mudstuff jobbie in he summer.

The only problem with the electrics was that the lid of the fuse box was too big and fowled the rain gutter on the bulkhead - five minutes with the junior hacksaw and a tube of super-glue solved that one:

Before:

Ta-da:

I have had the heater running today - started up and ran straight away without any issues. Sounds like a bloody harrier trying to take off when it's on full whack! Timer works great and with today's ambient temperature had the coolant up to temp in about 15/20 minutes.

The only thing I would change straight away is where the exhaust runs as I do get some fumes in the cab when stationary.

This was a very straight forward - I did it over a succession of evenings usually no more than an hour and a half at a go depending on domestic duties/unsettled children. If you are prepared to spend out a bit more on the washer bottle solution event that is plug and play!

Over all I'm a very happy bunny

Summary of parts used (not in any particular order and I've probably forgotten something) -

washer bottle mod:

Under wing washer bottle (£26.00)

Washer hose (5m)

non return valves x 2

tee-piece

32mm rubber lined hose clamps x 2 (should only be 30mm but I guessed wrong!)

Webasto Install:

Webasto 2mm fuel hose (5m)

16mm ID coolant hose (2m)

8mm fuel hose (2m)

5mm Fuel hose (1m)

13-15mm jubilee clamps (some)

15-17mm jubilee clamps (some)

small fuel hose clamps (can't remember exact size but small enough to grip down on 5mm fuel hose)

25mm rubber lined hose clamps

8mm non return (check valve)

5/8mm fuel filter

8mm Tee-piece x2

Various electrical bits - crimps/heatshrink.fuse carrier/cable ties

Plus a plentiful supply of hot tea and a dictionary of technical swear words.

[CwazyWabbit]

Nice install and very comprehensive install guide

[western]

Cheers for sorting the photo's CW, looks like a good addition.

[Maverik]

Nice write up mr PB.

[poohbear]

Thanks CW - you are a true gent.

Mods: if you need to edit (or delete!) the original post in any way to make the thread easier to follow then please feel free!

Thanks for the positive comments - it's fair to say that I couldn' t have planned the project as well without the information/advice from this forum.

[Classic nut]

Nice one - thinking about fitting similar to RRC - anyone done that (300TDi) - I presume I connect onto one of the 2 water pipes at the top of the engine - should I go for the flow to the matrix, or the return, going into the engine?

[GBMUD]

Good work! Can I make a further suggestion ref the pictures? Why not upload them to the forum so that in the event that the pictures are removed from the hosting company one day, they will still appear in the thread. There are too many threads in the tech archive which aer missing their pictures because the owners have deleted them from their hosting account for one reason or another.

Cheers

Chris

[CwazyWabbit]

In this case the pictures are actually hosted on the forum but in the gallery section and then linked to from there, so unless they get deleted from the forum gallery they will remain.

[GBMUD]

Aha, good job then!

Chris

[poohbear]

Ref. Classic Nut's query -

Where you plumb the heater in depends on what your priorities are - If you want to heat the engine first then splice into the lines post the heater matrix (as close to the thermostat housing as possible), if you want to get heat into the cab first then put it between the head outlet and heater matrix.

HTH.

Dave.

[PieEater3142]

Hey, just wondering how you took the feed out of the water bottle to the two washer pumps? Have just put the same sort of thing in with an eberspacher (see my project for pics) but I need to wire and plump in the wiper bottles this weekend. Also where did you get the check return valve from - just realised that this is going to be a requirement as I am tapping into the existing fuel line.