reggie Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I've been out in my Neighbours Series III giving it a test drive & noticed how bad the brakes are on it. Now I knew that they had drum brakes all round but after being used to my 93 Rangie I now realise what a difference disc brakes make on a vehicle compared to drum brakes. He told me that you have to stamp on the pedal & I thought he was joking but after driving it I now know what he means. I'm just glad I didn't get to close behind anyone who was stopping in a hurry.......... Now he's a real nice old chap who can't really do a lot of work to it himself anymore but has said that he has always wanted to fit disc brakes to the front as he has read about it in various Land Rover mags etc. What I want to know is how easy a job is it & what parts I will need as I really want to help him out & get his beloved Series III the way he wants it, along with all the other things he's wanted to do for years. I can see this turning into a full restoration project before long................ I mentioned that to him & he said " that would be nice" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 It's not really "on the driveway" kinda stuff, if you buy the kit (££££££) you still have to get the grinder out, if you DIY it there's all sorts of stuff. Swapping disced axles on isn't without hassle either - converting to coils is a real kerfuffle and means SVA time, the alternative is converting coil axles to leaves which also brings issues. All the options have been discussed at length before, I'd suggest searching and having a good read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltwt1981 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I agree with Fridge, I've done it as has Jon White. Easy if you know how but not simple to work out from scratch. You need a lathe or mill or both and the right bits. Search is your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Yep... the later brakes for the series III (11"?) are a big improvement BTW, I am sure someone was saying they managed 95% efficiency when tested at the MOT station. The above is much much cheaper and all standard bolt-on parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve H Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Not sure if you're talking L or SWB here but the standard brakes brought up to scratch can be quite efficient & well up to most use. Unless your neighbour is doing a lot of heavy towing or mudplugging I'd tend to go this way. I you read the threads that deal with fitting discs, you'll quickly realise how difficult it is, nice idea & all though. If there isn't one fitted, a servo, either direct or remote helps a heap. As has already been stated, the 11" front brakes from later 109s is a good start, you'll want a bigger master to shift the extra fluid they take, I believe its also recommended to fit the front wheel cylinders to the rears on a SWB to get best advantage. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I did mine myself with lots of headscratching and plenty of questions asked on here................. search my posts, there is a build up tread and it should pop up.................... As other have said, drums are up to the job if maintaied correctly. I just got fed up of setting them every now and again and wet drum brakes are never fun............... G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 My 109 is pretty heavy, with all the extras and the thick tub floor. It must have weighed very close to the 3.5T limit on the Alps trip, but the drum brakes coped without any trouble at all - sensible speeds on the way down on the roads and the drums didn't even get hot, while all the disc braked Defenders had been driving faster and had cooked brakes. The main reason I want Defender axles is for the steering radius and CV joints - the disc brakes are a much lower issue on the wants list. I'm told the Rocky Mountain is easy to fit. Their kit doesn't need any machining, from what I understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 Thanks for the advise guys, I spoke to my neighbour about it & told him the options. He would still like to do it at some point but as we have no workshop & its bloody freezing at the moment we were in agreeance to leave it for a while until it we are in a better position to start it. It will give me some time to do some more research & get my head round what I will need parts wise. I haven't even finished my own jobs on my Rangie yet, every time I step outside I go back in for a cup of tea & think maybe tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 My brakes were awful to start with on my SWB, I replaced lots of parts and they were still bad (they passed the MOT but I wasn't happy) I then found out about fitting a vacuum pump. I got myself a peugeot 309 vacuum pump which is an external belt driven pump. I fabricated a bracket which mounts where the lifting eye goes and found a fan belt to fit. Suddenly I had excellent brakes, couldn't be happier. It out brakes the discovery I had and the brakes even carry on working after off roading in the quarry lake (they used to just stop working). Only problem I am left with is the first proper press of the pedal after it's been left swings it over to the left (like the front left brake is catching first) I've just got into the habit of slapping the brake on hard at the first bend in our road which goes left. They are then perfect afterwards. Much cheaper option (about £20 in total) and very effective, also doesn't affect your insurance unlike fitting disc brakes. Hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted November 28, 2008 Author Share Posted November 28, 2008 My brakes were awful to start with on my SWB, I replaced lots of parts and they were still bad (they passed the MOT but I wasn't happy)I then found out about fitting a vacuum pump. I got myself a peugeot 309 vacuum pump which is an external belt driven pump. I fabricated a bracket which mounts where the lifting eye goes and found a fan belt to fit. Suddenly I had excellent brakes, couldn't be happier. It out brakes the discovery I had and the brakes even carry on working after off roading in the quarry lake (they used to just stop working). Only problem I am left with is the first proper press of the pedal after it's been left swings it over to the left (like the front left brake is catching first) I've just got into the habit of slapping the brake on hard at the first bend in our road which goes left. They are then perfect afterwards. Much cheaper option (about £20 in total) and very effective, also doesn't affect your insurance unlike fitting disc brakes. Hope that helps That's got to be worth a look, if it improves the standard brakes the I'm sure he would be happy with that. He didn't even want me to drive through a shallow ford the other day for fear of his brakes not working Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 They seem to be getting a bit rare now, but this look something like it: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LDV-400-BRAKE-VACUUM...%3A1|240%3A1318 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Suddenly I had excellent brakes, couldn't be happier. It out brakes the discovery I had and the brakes even carry on working after off roading in the quarry lake (they used to just stop working). Only problem I am left with is the first proper press of the pedal after it's been left swings it over to the left (like the front left brake is catching first) I've just got into the habit of slapping the brake on hard at the first bend in our road which goes left. They are then perfect afterwards.Much cheaper option (about £20 in total) and very effective, also doesn't affect your insurance unlike fitting disc brakes. Hope that helps That sounds like oil contamination of the shoes, probably through a weeping hub seal. It could just be the seal itself, or could be the seal land (the thicker part of the stub axle that the seal runs on) having a wear groove. If your axle is 10 spline, then you just need the new seal and a seal land collar. If you have a 24 spline axle, then a damaged seal land requires replacement of the stub axle, as it's not a separate component on the later axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Hi Snagger, It's the 24 spline axle, it has done the jerk to the left on first brake ever since I got the brakes sorted. I had the drums apart a couple of weeks back and there was no oil contamination, I was actually replacing the stub axle due to a collapsed bearing so all that has been checked and replaced. It still pulls to the left though! It's only ever the first press so it doesn't bother me. Not sure if it's coincidence but my uncles 109 which I got the idea about the vacuum pump from (as his had one fitted when he bought it) also does exactly the same and pulls to the left on first press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBorges Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 The late SWB series have the LWB front wheel cylinders (2 by wheel) I believe after 1981. The late spanish series have discs in front wheels and is plug-and-play, if you have friends in Spain is a good option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West4x4 Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Well set up brakes will stop you well enough and a servo will help the amount of push you need to give on the pedal. he doesnt need discs he just needs his drums sorting out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Hi Snagger,It's the 24 spline axle, it has done the jerk to the left on first brake ever since I got the brakes sorted. I had the drums apart a couple of weeks back and there was no oil contamination, I was actually replacing the stub axle due to a collapsed bearing so all that has been checked and replaced. It still pulls to the left though! It's only ever the first press so it doesn't bother me. Not sure if it's coincidence but my uncles 109 which I got the idea about the vacuum pump from (as his had one fitted when he bought it) also does exactly the same and pulls to the left on first press. Does this always happen having parked the vehicle in the same spot, facing the same way, especially if the weather is damp? If one side of the vehicle is more exposed to the weather than the other, it's common for a little surface rust to form more on one side than the other, with the result you describe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Does this always happen having parked the vehicle in the same spot, facing the same way, especially if the weather is damp? If one side of the vehicle is more exposed to the weather than the other, it's common for a little surface rust to form more on one side than the other, with the result you describe. No, I always park in the same spot but it's about 50/50 between going in forwards and reversing in. I don't use the Series that much, so it's normally left atleast a few days if not weeks between uses. I used it yesterday to fetch a christmas tree, and did my normal hard press of the brakes as I drove out of our cul-de-sac (slow speed) and for the first time the wheels locked up and I skidded a bit, it still pulled slightly left whilst skidding, but it felt like the rear left wheel had locked up - but it's hard to tell in a split second from the drivers seat. I'd be interested in working out what it is but it's one of those things I've never looked into due to it not being a problem as long as I remember to press them once first before I actually need them! After that first press they are perfect - I get uniform straight braking which flew through the MOT. It's looking like I may have more pressing issues at the moment - just about to start a topic about lack of power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark green 90 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Sotal, Any chance of some pics of this vacuum upgrade,it sounds interesting. cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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