aigars

portal axle conversion

102 posts in this topic

I don't see that machining your own complete portal ends (and all the development work that entails) is less work than making a Mog axle fit, which is a commonly done and well known process. :unsure:

Sometimes, the journey is more important than the destination.

Si

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Sometimes, the journey is more important fun than the destination.

Si

Agree, with minor alteration ;)

Honestly, I love the engineering on my Range as much as driving it, I suspect for many other people it is the same...

Top work on the boxes, impressive stuff :)

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I can see the pros and cons of both fitting OEM portal axles and fitting bolt on portal axles.

Fitting Volvo or Mog axles is reasonably simple and well documented, but both axles are getting harded to find and both need a fair amount of work to get fitted, disc brakes, etc. However if you're starting a project from scratch and can do some or all of the work yourself then this is, IMHO, the most sensible way to go.

I can really understand bolt on portal boxes if you already have a worked suspension system and axles which you don't want to replace or re-do. And Wolfgang's engineering on the Killeraxles bolt on boxes seems very comprehensive. However the big issue is gearing, I don't know what ratio the Killeraxles boxes are, but Mog and Volvo boxes are both about 2:1 as I recall, meaning that you need a 2:1 to 2.5:1 ratio ring and pinion to make the set up work.

There's been a lot of talk of hybrid Mog-9 axles on Pirate which seem to consist of Mog portal boxes, a fabricated (Spidertrax or similar) centre section and Hi-9 diff. I've seen them with Dana 60 steering knuckles between the Mog boxes and the axle. This seems a more practical way to go get the best combination of components if you're building from scratch. If I were doing this I think I'd be tempted to use Volvo portal boxes if I could get the diff ratio right, or Hummer boxes (which I think are closer to 1:1 ratio) with a Toyota or Salisbury centre.

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I can see the pros and cons of both fitting OEM portal axles and fitting bolt on portal axles.

Fitting Volvo or Mog axles is reasonably simple and well documented, but both axles are getting harded to find and both need a fair amount of work to get fitted, disc brakes, etc. However if you're starting a project from scratch and can do some or all of the work yourself then this is, IMHO, the most sensible way to go.

I can really understand bolt on portal boxes if you already have a worked suspension system and axles which you don't want to replace or re-do. And Wolfgang's engineering on the Killeraxles bolt on boxes seems very comprehensive. However the big issue is gearing, I don't know what ratio the Killeraxles boxes are, but Mog and Volvo boxes are both about 2:1 as I recall, meaning that you need a 2:1 to 2.5:1 ratio ring and pinion to make the set up work.

There's been a lot of talk of hybrid Mog-9 axles on Pirate which seem to consist of Mog portal boxes, a fabricated (Spidertrax or similar) centre section and Hi-9 diff. I've seen them with Dana 60 steering knuckles between the Mog boxes and the axle. This seems a more practical way to go get the best combination of components if you're building from scratch. If I were doing this I think I'd be tempted to use Volvo portal boxes if I could get the diff ratio right, or Hummer boxes (which I think are closer to 1:1 ratio) with a Toyota or Salisbury centre.

PB, the Mog9's don't use a Hi9 diff - they flip a standard 9" centre and run a reverse oiler in the pinion. The same is true for the rear engined rock racers where the input rotation is reversed. Also, Hi9 gearing would not work well with portals where you are looking for a ring gear in the 2s or 3s.

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Entirely agree! Building / fabbing in the work shop is far far more fun than actually driving it!

gettin oily and dirty, the smell of diesel, the sting of brake fluid - nothing better!

I wish i had the tools, patience and competence to build drop box's like these!

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PB, the Mog9's don't use a Hi9 diff - they flip a standard 9" centre and run a reverse oiler in the pinion. The same is true for the rear engined rock racers where the input rotation is reversed. Also, Hi9 gearing would not work well with portals where you are looking for a ring gear in the 2s or 3s.

Thanks Will, my mistake, but as you say a lot of conversation has been on the lack of availability of suitable R&P gearing, even on the standard 9".

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Sometimes, the journey is more important than the destination.

Si

VERY WELL PUT!

Lara

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The gearing on these Portals is 1,6:1 which takes just over 50% of the stress from your drivetrain.

The lift you achieve with these boxes is 4,9".

All shafts are made of 4340 Chromo.

3623998.jpg

I will be running them with 35" tyres and again use my Proflex suspension with, hopefully they´ll be ready in time, a set of Eibach coil springs. This gives me a lift of 1,7" on the body.

The weight of a Defender axle is well over 100kg less than a Mog axle. The exact weight I will tell you as soon as they have them ready and all parts fitted.

So long,

Robert

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I don't see that machining your own complete portal ends (and all the development work that entails) is less work than making a Mog axle fit, which is a commonly done and well known process. :unsure:

Volvos are rarer but not impossible to find, I know at least one new build using them at the moment.

But the Mog axle will weigh something like 270-300kg and the Defender axle with drop boxes just somewhere around 160kg....that´s a slight difference, isn´t it?

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Sometimes, the journey is more important than the destination.

Si

But the funny thing is though, the more you build and fabricate yourself, the more you enjoy doing this, and the less you enjoy driving! In the beginning you had tonnes of fun driving a stock (stuck ;) ) series with nothing else than some semi offroad tires. Then it progressed quickly, and before you noticed, you are spending more and more time in the workshop and less time in the mud.. A disturbing thought..

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But the Mog axle will weigh something like 270-300kg and the Defender axle with drop boxes just somewhere around 160kg....that´s a slight difference, isn´t it?

Dry the Mog 404 axles weigh 220kg rear and 240kg front, so 40% heavier, but it's the physical size of the diff that normally causes a fit issue. I've seen Volvos quoted as 170kg front and 155kg rear, so about the same as you're saying for the converted LR axles.

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Like I said, I am not criticising the idea, just curious about the reason. If the reason is "because it's interesting" then I can totally understand. People seem to have mistaken this for some sort of argument :rolleyes:

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But the funny thing is though, the more you build and fabricate yourself, the more you enjoy doing this, and the less you enjoy driving! In the beginning you had tonnes of fun driving a stock (stuck ;) ) series with nothing else than some semi offroad tires. Then it progressed quickly, and before you noticed, you are spending more and more time in the workshop and less time in the mud.. A disturbing thought..

So very true.

And one that I am currently addressing, back to enjoying the driving for me!

That was the true reason for purchasing the mog, so much so right out of the tin, regular maintenance (which I do enjoy) on a stock truck should see me back to where the mud is!

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So very true.

And one that I am currently addressing, back to enjoying the driving for me!

That was the true reason for purchasing the mog, so much so right out of the tin, regular maintenance (which I do enjoy) on a stock truck should see me back to where the mud is!

Haha you are so irritatingly right about the Mog, it is SO ready of the box and it can go anywhere, and there's grease nipples for EVERY moving part. Yet I have managed to spend loads of money on mine, tuning, tweaking, rethinking and so on. I now almost seem to have forgotten how good it actually was when I started. WHY won't I ever learn! :angry: Well anyways suppose it's because it really is what I love doing so I better keep doing it ;)

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I think it's a good thing to have another company offering "bolt-on" conversions for those who can afford the bill/don't find other (used) axles to inplant/find them but don't have the room-tools-skills to do the conversion on their own...

Looking forward to seeing the Defender rolling out of the box on the new converted axles.

The only thing I don't like is the Hutchinson rim, it doesn't suit the Defender IMHO but this is just a matter of taste...

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I think it's a good thing to have another company offering "bolt-on" conversions for those who can afford the bill/don't find other (used) axles to inplant/find them but don't have the room-tools-skills to do the conversion on their own...

Looking forward to seeing the Defender rolling out of the box on the new converted axles.

The only thing I don't like is the Hutchinson rim, it doesn't suit the Defender IMHO but this is just a matter of taste...

Not bad, if you just dislike the wheel :-)

They where available and I didn´t find anything similar for what I need the wheel for.

The lower flange can be replaced though to fit one with a LR bolt pattern or any bolt pattern you like.

I hope the axles will be unter my 130 by mid February and I will definitly keep you guys updated.

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Something "old style" would be perfect (like LR Wolf or Volvo rims just to say)

:)

but it's just me...

Looks great.

Were you in Germany not a long time ago?

:unsure:

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I really like the Silverline wheels but couldn´t get them in the offset we would have needed, but hey, the project is surely not over when my Defender is standing on these axles :-)

Why did you ask about Germany? I go back and forth rather frequent....part of my job ;-)

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I just had a feeling you were German.

I came across a couple of posts of your on the PBB and also I think I saw a German reg plate on the 110..am I right?

I try to go to Ger (and UK) at least once every year.

Nice to meet fellow forumeers when possible.

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PB, the Mog9's don't use a Hi9 diff - they flip a standard 9" centre and run a reverse oiler in the pinion. The same is true for the rear engined rock racers where the input rotation is reversed. Also, Hi9 gearing would not work well with portals where you are looking for a ring gear in the 2s or 3s.

Of course, I was being incredibly thick. That is why the custom bolt on arrangement from Killeraxles here is a worth-while idea. Most OEM Portals (Mog, Volvo, Hummer) run a two gear box, meaning that the diff has to be geared to run the half shafts 'backwards' compared to a conventional axle. The Killeraxles, Maxi Drive etc run two idler gears to keep the rotation original.

If you've already got some nice locker equipt LR axles and a decent LR based suspension system then it isn't worth throwing it all away to start again with portals. The bolt on boxes make sense.

Oilworker, the idea of these on a 130 sounds really good!

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Keep it up!

I'd love set.

i love the engineering and the potential ease of it all.

I hope your friend can build them cheap enough to become popular.

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I guess he can. He calculated them rather tight and he´s already at least a step further...

In the end though, price will be following demand, doesn´t it?

Oh and by the way, I am just sort of german :-) based there among others :-) and yes the licence plate on the 110 is german now :-)

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So, intime for the weekend the rear axle is almost completed....

3688144.jpg

3688146.jpg

3688147.jpg

3688148.jpg

3688149.jpg

3688218.jpg

Next week the front axle will be ready and then it will come to installing them on the 130CC.

I will keep you updated.

So long,

Robert

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Uhh looking VERY good mate, I can see the portal housings are completely interchangeable, even the bolt holes for the caliper bracket! ;)

Nice craftmanship indeed. So what are the calipers and brakediscs off then?

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Uhh looking VERY good mate, I can see the portal housings are completely interchangeable, even the bolt holes for the caliper bracket! ;)

Nice craftmanship indeed. So what are the calipers and brakediscs off then?

Didn´t I already mention that? Sorry, if not.

They are from a Chevy truck, should do the job of stopping the 130CC.

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