roguevogue Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I recently recieved a pair of Nth Degree Mobility's Gyro joints to play with, thanks hugely to SteveG. They are basically a ball and socket, with a 2" diameter ball sitting in a polyurethane cup, a bit like a hip joint. The thread is 1" diameter. The bracket in the picture is of my own manufacture, the joint when supplied in "DIY" form comes with a flat plate intended to weld on to the chassis somehow. Because the joint is American the thread is a unified form, however it is not straight forward UNF (1"-12), as I found out to my cost, but UNS (1"-14). Luckily I have a very good engineering suppliers locally called Antron who were able to source a tap so that I could adapt to my radius arm tubes. The radius arms are made of 38mm od, 4mm wall CDS tube. Having removed the old bracket from the chassis I ground off the last remnants of the welds and prepared for the new brackets. I welded the new brackets on a known distance from the front axle bracket so that the wheel base remains constant. After a quick lick of paint and job done. The joints come with a designed in grease nipple and grooves in the bush to flow the grease arround the ball. Now as soon as I get a new starter motor I will be able to get down from the ramp and test them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Now they are smart Top work there B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Wot I really loathe about you is how incredibly well you did at the MWWCE moving about and around ... AND you had no lockers Those look lovely, ....wonder if you'll have "Extra" movement once the slindon grinding paste gets in there ? Have you thought about the poor old A Frame ball joint ? But nice, very nice GIT Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguevogue Posted May 7, 2006 Author Share Posted May 7, 2006 Wot I really loathe about you is how incredibly well you did at the MWWCE moving about and around ...AND you had no lockers Those look lovely, ....wonder if you'll have "Extra" movement once the slindon grinding paste gets in there ? Have you thought about the poor old A Frame ball joint ? But nice, very nice GIT Nige I don't have an A frame ball joint, I outgrew that already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I don't have an A frame ball joint, I outgrew that already. What have you done then, Nick? I can't quite see in photo 6 although there's no ball joint in sight.... You've done a lovely job (again). I might have to get the details about those joints if they work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 What have you done then, Nick? I can't quite see in photo 6 although there's no ball joint in sight....You've done a lovely job (again). I might have to get the details about those joints if they work. He's on three link with a panard rod. Very nice! A few Questions if you don't mind? How "hard" did the bushes feel? How much did they cost in total? And how much are replacement bushes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Well done Nick. Once again a nice bit of design leaving everyone else playing catch-up. Hell, you might as well just paint 'em Orange now! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Nice work as always They look to be a great design assumung the sand/grit doesn't abrade them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 a boot on the back and a few good jabs with the grease gun should keep the grit out - they look like a good soloution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguevogue Posted May 8, 2006 Author Share Posted May 8, 2006 How "hard" did the bushes feel?How much did they cost in total? And how much are replacement bushes? The bushes have the same sort of feel as blue poly bushes. They cost about $95 each, plus carriage, if you can find someone who will ship to the UK. Bushes are available as a replacement part but I don't know how much, other joints cost about $4 a set!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguevogue Posted May 8, 2006 Author Share Posted May 8, 2006 Hell, you might as well just paint 'em Orange now! I nearly did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 They look very good Nick, very nice bracket work there. They give it a very simple clean look to the arms. So what was the movement like before you bolted them arms to the chassis? I can't see wear being too much of a problem when they are well greased and it's easy to unbolt and inspect them. I see that you re=located the grease nipple to a better location too. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguevogue Posted May 8, 2006 Author Share Posted May 8, 2006 I'm hoping that the grease will keep the grit out, being as they are not metal on metal should help. Here are some more pictures of the rear end setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 I like A LOT! That's really nice, light and simple. How have you found it in action? I mentioned doing this sort of thing about a year ago and got a few people suggesting it wasn't a great idea as it'd cause excessive axle tramp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Im not sure how that would affect tramp? if the geometry is the same then the antisquat is also the same? or have I missed a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguevogue Posted May 8, 2006 Author Share Posted May 8, 2006 So what was the movement like before you bolted the arms to the chassis? The axle moved a long way but the "triangular" bushes were restricting the downward travel, with the car cross axled a foot on the trye could push it down against the rubber of the bush, it is true that kinking the radius arms would have helped but the bushes would still be stressed. The third link using the front radius arm bushes is an idea I borrowed from the Gon2far three link, the first fitment as used at Bures had rubber bushes which didn't last the whole day, now it has poly bushes which should last longer. In time, if they turn out to last, I would like to replace them entirely with anither Gyro Joint. As far as axle tramp goes, I avoid driving on the road when posssible not least because of the fuel economy but mainly because it's like driving the Isle of Wight ferry. The front three link and long shocks allows an alarming amount of body roll, and articulation. See here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyzeus Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Very impressive articulation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Yeah, I can imagine its a bit boaty as you're running soft springs and you've got nothing built into the design to limit roll (ie hockey sticks). I'm trying to come up with some designs to allow a certain degree of adjustability so you can stiffen things up on the road and on side slopes. Oh, and I've had a very simple idea for forced articulation that'd help road handling too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 Nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 Yeah, I can imagine its a bit boaty as you're running soft springs and you've got nothing built into the design to limit roll (ie hockey sticks). I'm trying to come up with some designs to allow a certain degree of adjustability so you can stiffen things up on the road and on side slopes. Oh, and I've had a very simple idea for forced articulation that'd help road handling too. Easiest way to stiffen it up on the road is to fit an anti roll-bar and make it detachable. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 Easiest way to stiffen it up on the road is to fit an anti roll-bar and make it detachable.Steve Ner - too simple - you want something with hydraulic rams and synchronous rotary manifolds with bypass valves! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 Ner - too simple - you want something with hydraulic rams and synchronous rotary manifolds with bypass valves! Si All ECU controlled of course for varying road conditions!! So when is it finished?? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 Yeah, I can imagine its a bit boaty as you're running soft springs and you've got nothing built into the design to limit roll (ie hockey sticks). I'm trying to come up with some designs to allow a certain degree of adjustability so you can stiffen things up on the road and on side slopes. Oh, and I've had a very simple idea for forced articulation that'd help road handling too. This is what you want Will, Kinetic Suspension After the tray back conversion on the rangie, I will be playing with forced articulation (have some major parts already). BTW, with 3 link suspension, it is worthwhile offsetting the single upper link, to counter torque lift. This is especially benificial in off camber situations when the left side is higher. The side to offset the link, depends whether the link slopes up, or down to the chassis. The correct amount of offset is proportional to the diff ratio, but any offset will help (as long as it is on the correct side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 This is what you want Will, Kinetic SuspensionAfter the tray back conversion on the rangie, I will be playing with forced articulation (have some major parts already). BTW, with 3 link suspension, it is worthwhile offsetting the single upper link, to counter torque lift. This is especially benificial in off camber situations when the left side is higher. The side to offset the link, depends whether the link slopes up, or down to the chassis. The correct amount of offset is proportional to the diff ratio, but any offset will help (as long as it is on the correct side. Bush, yes, this was the sort of thing I was thinking about. Simple, but, (hopefully) affective. I've heard about offsetting the upper link (I'm personally not that fond of single lower link systems even though they're a lot easier to produce) but I've not thought into that much detail yet. It makes sence if yu think about it, though. I'm having a new exhaust built shortly and the downpipe will stay as high and come down as late as possible to make locating the 3rd link easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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