B reg 90 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I'm shamed into posting some info..... Started with this: B reg 90, 200 TDI, uprated axles, simex and superwinch 525 PTO winch. The master plan was initially to improve the winch by changing from a direct drive from the transferbox to a hydraulic pump driven off the crank. As you will shortly see the job developed a slight element of mission creep and grew arms and legs..... 1st we stripped the green,white and yellow Breg 90. In the mean time there was a good event coming up. So we fitted the axles, tyres and winch to the blue 90 (only 2.5 non turbo diesel) and went off to play..... In the mean time we endded up deciding that the chassis on the B reg 90 was not as good as we had thought (it had had a genuine LR replacement chassis in the early 90's). So we stripped down the blue 90 below.. 1st part of the project was the winches. The plan was to fit a high speed hydraulic motor. So I machined a mini bell housing to adapt the motor to the winch: At this point I got a bit carried away and decided that I needed more power and better axles. So the BMW M57 was sourced and I bought some volvo C303 portals........ Once we had picked 38.5" boggers we decided that the wheel base needed increasing. So the back axle went back 5.5", the front forward 2" giving a true 100" wheel base. We started at the back and chopped off the rear chassis at the spring hangers. Paul (my brother) fabbed up some straight chassis rails and a winch tray. This was linked with the existing chopped back rear body like so: We slowed down at this point as I had some health issues for the next few years and Paul was busy at work.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 If your going for a M57 diesel the standard lr gear boxes don't by all accounts cut it. Niel at Rakeway ended up with a big chunk of my cash to build a tremec TKO to fit between the BMW and a LT230. To get the wheel to winch speed right there is also an ashcroft underdrive. As ther underdrive and tremec are brand new it seemd a bit if a shame to fit any old LT230, so a recon unit for ashcroft arrived.... The fully assembled unit looked very shiney..... The clutch release is a concentric unit operating a uprated clutch on a custom Rakeway flywheel. Release unit was rotated to the correct orientation after this picture was taken... The next mission was to get the gear box in the car. We decided to keep the normal rear prop length as we didn't want to end up with a binding prop. So as I'd allready spent a few £££ a shortened rear LT230 output assembly for Rakeway was hardly going to make much differance.... This shortens the output shaft by 2.5". So coupled with the 5" move backwards on the rear axle this allowed the transferbox/gearbox/engine to be moved back 8". The bulkhead has a few corrosion issues and will be replaced by a new TD5 unit that's on the shelf later in the build. So we just made guessimate of the opening required and cut.... We then moved onto the engine. It's from a 530d car. You can use the same engine from a 330d car, an X5 or a L322 range rover. However you need the car sump. We wieghed the engine with all the ancliaries (except the starter motor) and it was 210 Kg. The black plastic assembly above the turbo is the air box. It's not water tight, so it met an early death with a dremmel and was cut off. The air filter will be remotely mounted some where. Only issue with this is that the air box has a plastic air line across to the inlet manifold. The air flow meter is built into this. As it is oval you can't out hoses onto either end. However a quick trip to a scrap yard that has a 2.5 liter straight 6 vauxhall omega will get you a airflow meter housing that is round and the M57 AFM element will fit right in. You can just put the hoses on the end of the AFM, but there is no 'step' to stop the hoses from blowing off. So I machined some adaptors out of a piece of aluminium round bar... That's all for tonight folks, been hassled to waste my life watching the X Factor with the missus..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Adrian/Paul, looks good. Cant help but feeling jealous about your workshop facilitys. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 That looks great, is the engine a straight 6? Love the sound of 6 pots in a row . Looking forward to more updates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 Yep, it's a straight 6, 3.0 liter diesel. They have been used in comp safari motors fairly widely and rally raid uk use them in Dakar racers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Yep, it's a straight 6, 3.0 liter diesel. They have been used in comp safari motors fairly widely and rally raid uk use them in Dakar racers. Looks really good, a few questions Why is the drum off the h14? alloy replacement? Are you getting fearn to set the m57 up? Did you have any problems with the lt230 difflock housing fouling rakeways tremec adapter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Holy cow. Love the winch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 Looks really good, a few questions Why is the drum off the h14? alloy replacement? Are you getting fearn to set the m57 up? Did you have any problems with the lt230 difflock housing fouling rakeways tremec adapter? The drum is off as I haven't refitted it. The drum is still steel, didn't consider going to Aliminium- there is probably better ways to lighten the winch though in my opinion. I have reduced the diameter of the drum to help with the line pull. The issue is the poor efficency of the worm gear at low speeds. Ideally the winch would use spur gears. However there are no other commercially available winches with the ~50:1 gear ratio I was looking for. The H14 at 48:1 is suitably heavy duty, but at low speeds it is only 84% efficent. However not too sure how it will cope with an input power (shaft power) of up to 20 HP. To refit the drum I need to set up the end float of the drum and the free spool dog. I have fitted a air free spool to a winch that was originally lever free spooled. Now discovered that there is a subtle differance between the dimensions of the free spool drive dog on the air compared to the level free spool versions..... iritiating. The M57 ECU has been set up to run with out the need for the BMW car key by J. Fearn. As it is the DDE4 ECU (engines upto ~2002) that's all it needs. If I want more power though I will be back. The difflock actuator cover plate clashes with the side of the tremec gearbox. However the clash is minimal. I milled the alloy cover down to ~ 3mm (mainly removing the ribs cast into it), counter sunk the locating holes and refitted with counnter sunk allen head screws. Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 210kg is a little heavier than i'd have expected from the m57, a guy near me has a 320hp fearn motor in his comp safari motor and the noise it makes is quite special, no diesel rattle sounds more like a turbine. I have a m51 with a fearn built fully mechanical pump on it thats been looking for a home for a while, i'd planned on using the bmw zf box and adapting that up to a lt230, i've kind of shelved that idea now though in favour of a 3.9 isuzu mated up to a 101 box as i deemed these to be more "robust". I wouldn't be worried about the input torque of the h14, i run mine without a slip clutch or sheer pin and i've used a lot of throttle without anything dying yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 210Kg was less than I expected, considering a TDI is 275. How does this compare with the isuzu (2.8 or 3.9)? Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bp90 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Daan, I cant help feeling jealous of your house ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 210Kg was less than I expected, considering a TDI is 275. How does this compare with the isuzu (2.8 or 3.9)? Daan I weighed a fully dressed 300tdi at 290kg, the 2.8 isuzu i havent weighed but is certainly lighter i'd guess 240kg, my 3.9 isuzu is 315kg fully dressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexi Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Did you get the 4bd1 here in UK?.........a bus or light truck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Did you get the 4bd1 here in UK?.........a bus or light truck? Very very rarely in light truck form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Thought I'd add some more info. The project started with the winches. In reality the vehicle has been built around them. Once we had decided that a Superwinch H14 had the right gear ratio I rang round all the advertisers in one of the land rover comics and found two. I then sent Paul of in a van to collect two I'd found: I am using a Parker bent axis piston motor to drive the winch. This puppy is good for a shaft power of 50 HP..: The winches were then stripped and I designed a mini bell housing to connect the hydraulic motor direct to the winch. I could have paid to have this machined, but that's cheating, so I signed up for a 'model engineering' class at the local technical college and bought a big billet of aluminium..... Some swarf creation later: Followed by a test fit onto the motor: . Then I milled off part of the flange to give it an approximate double 'egg' shape to match the hydraulic motor flange: Then a test fit in the winch worm gear box: I was fair chuffed at this point as this was the 1st thing I'd made on a lathe since school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 I then moved to building the winch. I had an air free spool on the previous PTO winch (Superwinch 525). So I bought the air freespool that superwinch do for the H14... My winches are the lever free spool version, so I had to drill and tap the end of the winch to take the free spool. Irriatingly the lever and button freespool versions of the H14 have different drive dogs, so I had to shim out the air free spool to get it to work. I then had a bare winch built: Add some paint: I went with JCB yellow, much to Pauls irritation... Final job on the winch was reducing the drum diameter. Started by just chopping a perfectly good drum in 1/2. Then went and found some 2 1/2 " Nominal bore schedule 160 pipe to replace the center section. Each end was prepared for welding: Then welded: I'd love to say I welded it, but I didn't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Once you have your hydraulic winch you need a hydraulic pump: This is a load sensing, variable displacement piston pump. It will be driven direct by the engine so that the clutch/gearbox are not linked. Intial plans were a chain drive, as per the cardboard mock up in the picture below. I still had the 200 TDI engine as well.... this soon changed. It is now set up with a direct drive mini prop from the front of the engine. As the pump is load sensing there is no need for a clutch between the engine and pump. Also there is no continualy pumping, therefore less heta is put into the hydraulic oil than a gear pump system. You also need a valve block... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Ok adrian, looks good. i noticed you are smoking holes into just about anything which is good. How much does this winch actually weigh? Also, you little man has the same tricycle as little adrian, how does he get on with it? Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Daan, Tricycle - was used at the time, now ebay'd - The above pictures were taken about 3 years ago..... He used it a lot at the time, but preffered the electric 4 wheel quad like thing on the right of the picture. He went miles on that and best of all it was a free hand me down. Weight of the winch - The H14 with hydraulic motor is ~ 50Kg from memory. This is the same weight as an 8274 with wire rope. I assume that a gigglepin winch will be around the 50 Kg mark as well with the second motor. Adrian P.s. how do I edit the 1st few posts in this thread? The one's you copied over from the M57 engine thread. I want to correct the links to the pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Two-Jacks Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Bloody Hell, Thats some work!!!!! Makes my little 90 rebuild look shabby Well done J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Well not updated this for a while, mainly due to the usual rate of progress (slow) and the aquisition of a new toy: Arrival: Dragging it into the garage: And it's home: That's the end of getting a car/my disco in the garage for now...... The mill has an obselete Anilam CNC controller. It has a fault, but the mill was much cheapness, so couldn't be turned down. Afet a bit of fiddeling it's going to have to be either retrofitted with Mach 3 or converted to a manual machine. Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hobby out of control... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hobby out of control... Best way for it to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinchers Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 What have you done to get yourself a 3 phase power supply, I recently aquired a 3ph laith but need to sort out a power supply for it. Any cheap options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hobby out of control... Eghh? No idea what your on about. Now if I manage to get the garage extented just to suit the hobby, then I think you may have a point. But I wouldn't admitt it to the missus...... Also dreaming of a CNC plasma cutter I have my eye on.... That would definately need a garage extention - capabiltity to cut 8' x 4' sheet steel....... mmmmmm..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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