Peaklander

I’ll check the cost Ralph although I have made sure that they work with a blow and a push with a bit of wire at the same time. Plus I’ve had them out and in twice!!

Thought that maybe I'd update this thread after all rather than my other one. The honed bores now look like this, #1 to #4 I assembled the new piston for #2 to the conrod. It is supplied with a new pin and circlips and Turners supply KS ones, which I believe are the dogs dangles. Then I measured the top ring that was on #2, as when I looked closely I thought I could see a variation in thickness. So I was right it is very worn. This variation must have been caused by the piston sticking I presume. The two measured points are within a quadrant. A new ring measured: I checked all ring gaps at the bore mid-point as per the manual and then assembled to the piston. Thanks @lo-fi for the suggestion to buy some ring pliers. What a difference. It is still a lengthy job and I took great care not to scratch the bores although there are a couple of marks but they must be insignificant as i brought the rings up very carefully. It's amazing what a difference the honing has made to the feel of the rings on the bore surfaces. You can hear the friction between them. I checked the oil jets again. I had already fitted them but I wanted to blow back up the block from the point where the banjo bolt screws in, just in case there was anything in there. I don't know if this did any good and I then had a second dose of the fiddly task of re-fitting the jets with the crank in the way and no room for fingers. Finally I replaced the big end bearing shells and found some tube to protect the cap bolts as recommended. They should really have been on at piston removal. I cleaned and cleaned the kerosene / honing powder mix off the bores, crank and block sides. The honing guy had given the whole thing a good sluicing with paraffin but as @cackshifter advised, there was a fair bit left to remove. Next it's piston insert time.

Is that a leak path at number one? to water?

The mobile engine re-bore guy came today and honed the cylinders. It was great to see it done properly. I don't have a very good pic of the swirls now as they are coated with oil. The surface is slightly different but what's more notable is that I can hear a noise when I rub. I cleaned the top of the block and all holes and the surfaces of the sump and bottom of the block. I'm hoping to check the ring gaps on Sunday and start re-assembly. The honing tool is quite a beast and the motor is very heavy. After, the bores were given a good kerosene wash and then I cleaned-up the crank and emptied the drip trays which are stainless ones from an old food factory machine.

I'm insured with them and it's the same here. They say no each time I ask my local office for agreed value.

I'm really glad you did as I breezed past that bit in the overhaul manual, just making that "I thought" mistake. My Dad used to say " you know what thought did, don't you?" I never did find out the answer to that one. The manual says check with the rings half way down the bores. It's easy to push down with an inverted piston but getting them back up - is that with great care by hand, keeping them level or are they better to be turned and then squeezed by hand to pull up? It sounds a little tricky.

I’ll have a look at that, thanks. I am assuming that no one has been inside the engine since it was provided by Turners in 2003 and therefore I’ve faith that they were installed correctly. Are you saying that there might be a bit of ring adjustment needed even though they are specified at +20 and the bore isn’t worn? Is that going to be because of the slight hone? ( I will watch, promise but supposed to be doing tax return).

😀 I see. No, I just thought that I'd buy some new ones...maybe that is being a little extravagant but they will be here today. I remembered that there was some advice about the rocker shaft or was it the rockers? I have read-up on where to measure wear in the shaft so I will do that too. Not sure how to assess wear on the pads and the valve caps are only 25K miles old.

Yes two posts above. The max on top ring is 0.232 and gap is wider. Actually it’s a visible difference. The second ring gap is also over. That’s why I’m going for a new piston.

Understand now, thanks both. My engine is ex Discovery (21L) but it would have been a straight swap (by a po in 2003) as it was always a 300TDi / R380 combo.

Ok. What is it that causes this difference requiring the engine to be further back? I’ve heard about it before but don’t know why.

My PAS reservoir, viewed from front, is high up at front right hand side in the corner formed by intercooler and front wing. That's a 300 TDi 110.

I'm moving back to my vehicle thread now as I know where I am and what I'm doing with the engine re-build. The position is, that the white smoke (original reason for this thread) I hope has been cured with a couple of new nozzles and a full clean and check of the injectors. I checked the FIP timing with a dti and it is good. The excessive oil in the intake system that caused me to pull the head has, I hope been caused by excessive blow-by on #2 cylinder. There I have lost the honing at the back of the bore and the rings were very sticky. On cleaning-up, the ring to piston gaps are over spec on top and middle. So I will replace that piston. Speaking with Frieda at Turners, she pointed out that #2 is right next to the turbo. I hadn't thought of that but she seems to think that is why. I am getting the cylinders honed in a couple of days by a mobile company. I know, I know - I could do it myself but factoring in the cost of a tool, I'm not really paying too much and the job will be done by the weekend. I have told the guy that the turbo and manifold is off and I have already removed the oil jets which would get in the way. I checked these oil jets and they are OK. the pipes blew through, although the oil was a bit thick but it was only 5C. The banjo bolt non-return valves seem ok with a little push of welding wire. Interestingly Frieda said that they don't refit these with the copper washers anymore. I queried this and she checked with their engine builder and it was confirmed. Strange but true. So I could buy some more (8 and 10mm I think) or not bother. The existing ones are a bit deformed and not worth annealing otherwise I'd do that. The conrod bearings shells aren't warn at all and are at standard. Taking @cackshifter's advice, I will change these but can't see any reason to plastigauge for sizes as there is no visible wear. Frieda said the same. So, this morning I have ordered one +20 piston set which has rings, gudgeon pin and circlips, three groups of +20 rings, a set of conrod bearings at standard and an oil filter. There's a couple of other gaskets and stuff from elsewhere but that is the main bill to pay today. The cost mounts up. I'll probably head back over here next.

@mmgemini yes I know the answer to those questions but I don't see how they are relevant. There's a lot more to it than owning the name. You can't just say Indian is "a bad thing". There's plenty of autonomy in the UK bases. Far more than in plenty of other automotive companies here. I find it sad that there is little or no recognition of that within this thread In fact people seem to wish JLR a speedy demise. Why on earth would anyone want that, based on a feeling, however strong, that the newer models are not what "people" want? There's enough challenges in keeping strategic decision making in the UK as it is and it's fair to say that a good bit of JLRs is still here, as well as some manufacturing, plus engineering, design, sales, marketing...

An Indian carmaker, are you kidding? Have you been to Gaydon? Have you been inside? Have you seen how many people from the UK work there? There's more R&D and other stuff going on there under UK leadership than in many other car makers.

I feel sad reading these pages; especially all the handbags. I have a number of previous work colleagues now working at JLR and in some very significant positions. They have brought with them some fantastic automotive manufacturing and quality experience and are working their proverbials off to help get both J and LR into a better position. Ok so they don't design, market or sell, they work in operational roles and they would be sad too if they read this thread.

Yes I have read-up on how to use that. A new set is £23.40 from Turners though, so not expensive. Presumably I could buy a set at std (same as on) and direct fit? Edit: Also I have cleaned-up all the pistons but on number 2 the ring to groove gaps are over spec. Not much but they are over on top and middle rings. I am assuming that the rings are too hard to wear and it must be the piston. It's half expected of course.

I’m not surprised to hear that 😃 Presumably they need properly bedding in with new surface preparation?

Yes hone #2 probably not the others but I will practice first and see. If a little fettle is possible then I might. Certainly I’ll change all the rings. It won’t break the bank. As for the bid end shells, none are showing wear (colour change through to base) so I’m thinking not necessary? Tomorrow I will check the pistons especially #2. Also I will perhaps text the oil jets but I think they need to be removed for that. Should I change the core plugs? There are six but I don’t know if they can be accessed. Do I lever out and then smoothly tap new ones in? New ground. Plenty of questions!!!

Yes the measurements are good. TBH I did redo ones that were clearly outliers. This was mainly down to method. I used the gauge as a snap meaning put it in on an angle, fully open as it is only marginally wider than the bore, with the clamp tight. Then carefully moved it through the perpendicular, to then withdraw on the other angle. Sometimes I didn't tighten the clamp enough and it sprang open but other times it felt too tight. If it looked a but questionable we actually took a lot more of one measurement until I felt that the method was back in repeatable mode. I think that's OK. The kitchen table is right under that window.

Mrs Peaklander and I have had an interesting day measuring our bores. We are using a telescopic (snap) gauge and a vernier both from Mitutoyo. There is definitely a lot of care needed to ensure repeatability in the measurements and I worked hard to try to ensure that every one was made using exactly the same method. Measurements were taken within the swept area just down from the top, the middle and a little up from the bottom and for those, front to back and side to side. There are three data points for each one. The results are good. Then I started to measure the pistons but there was a sound of glass from the other side of the house and we found a Velux window where the unit has exploded. The inner pane was all over the kitchen floor with a still intact outer sheet. We contacted Velux who told us that there was a problem with that age of unit (about 19 years) and even a recall in the press which we didn't see. They are sorting it pronto. Measurement of pistons continues later!

How is the diaphragm checked @smallfry? I ask as white smoke was a problem for me and I could check this as well.

When I was in the engineering place in Sheffield to drop off my head the other day, I saw a block on a stand. I could see three pistons but where the fourth should have been was a pile of pebbles. I had a moment where I honestly thought it was being used as some sort of ashtray or something. Apparently it was a Merc engine and the piston had been subjected to a flamethrower of an injector which they believed was squirting directly down onto the head.

I'm thinking ahead to tomorrow when the measurements are done and there's confirmation that the bores are OK 😉. What are your recommendations regarding DIY honing? I have approached a mobile company, who are fairly local, following the Google suggestion from @western but I think that honing is straightforward and I should consider doing it myself. The engineering shop said a flexi-hone is fine and I should be careful to only do about twenty passes up and down each cylinder. So it doesn't look like a big job. There are plenty of tools around for ~£20. Also they said to keep the cylinders lubricated with paraffin and soak it up at the bottom, above the crank, with plenty of rags. So how to choose a tool and is there any advice on how to do it please? TIA

Absolutely no need to apologise. It’s a good news story that there’s a rebore size available. I hope I don’t need it. Will find out on Monday when I measure.