Ooops

My thoughts exactly. I can see you're a perfectionist but .....

I couldn't agree more @Threesheds, I'm loving those rims

Congratulations, I'm super envious Get ready for the wife to give you a hard time for not being able to wipe the "perma grin" off your face That's a beautiful part of the country you're in right there👍

ThreeSheds Have search on here and see if you can come up with what you need. If nothing suitable is available here go to "www.disco3.co.uk" and join Do a search for “What to look for” or similar I’ve cut and pasted the first one that I came to, there are others. When I looked for my D3 I found several that I was able to put together to make something with even more detail. It included exactly how to test the various systems and the parameters that they should conform to. For example how many time the EAS will raise & lower before it slows up or pauses and how long it should all take if working correctly. EPB emergency etc You may find items of equal detail if you can spend time searching. Unfortunately I don’t have the time to go through more than one for you. Here’s the first one that I looked at “My Test Drive. Your Help. Please!” https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic152690.html I started knocking up the following pre-purchase inspection schedule a few months ago but never got round to finishing it. It is by no means complete and need some good proof reading so would appreciate any ideas on things I have missed or got wrong. I will then get it formatted better and made into a downloadable PDF. There are obviously variations on vehicles depending on exact MY and options but it should give you something to work with. suitable Equipment required • Fault Reader • Plug in Voltmeter • Music CD • Notebook and pen If possible, get all codes read and cleared before test drive. Carry out complete walk round checking for damage, paint flaws, door/panel gaps, wheel damage Check correct operation of smart key buttons (all keys) Note external optional extras Tow bar fitted? Presence of red blank Towing electrics fitted? Stand on rear bumper and check roof note VIN from inspection window nearside lower corner of windscreen Open bonnet and check General condition in engine bay condition of bonnet insulation blanket oil level and condition coolant level and condition Check condition of air hoses check condition of aux drive belt open batter cover and check visual, condition of battery and date stamp if possible open 2nd battery cover and check brake fluid level and for contamination. leave bonnet open Check each wheel. Note tyre size, condition remaining tread, even wear. Check behind wheel for condition of brake pipes, disks etc. Check presence of spare wheel - Full size or space-saver? Operate rear offside passenger door and check for smooth opening and closing. Check condition of seats, internal trim, seat belts etc. Check folding seat mechanism. Check 3rd row seat base. Check courtesy lights Check rear ventilation louvred for free movement. Check ashtray area and presence of Aux audio input. Remove rubber mats if fitted and check carpet for condition and dampness. Open luggage compartment doors and check for correct operation and closing. Check security of upper door stay body mounts Check condition of internal trim, sides, ceiling, carpets 3rd row seat belts Raise 3rd row seats and check condition and operation. Open cubby boxes and check contents, - complete tool kit and wheel nut locking key Check operation of spare wheel hoist. Lower to inspect spare wheel and raise again. Check operation of courtesy light Check for corroded upper door handle retaining torx screws Check for presence of load cover Operate rear nearside passenger door and check for smooth opening and closing. Check condition of seats, internal trim, seat belts etc. Check folding seat mechanism. Remove rubber mats if fitted and check carpet for condition and dampness. Operate front nearside passenger door and check for smooth opening and closing Check condition of trim, seats etc. Remove rubber mat if fitted and check carpet for condition and dampness. Open glove compartments and check contents. Open main glove compartment and check for presence of Document wallet complete with handbook. Check interior light. Lower main glove compartment door to lowered position and check fuse box for non OEM wiring modifications. Check presence of fuse extractor tool. Operate driver's door and check for smooth opening and closing Check condition of trim, seat etc. Remove rubber mat if fitted and check carpet for condition and dampness. Check condition of foot pedal runners are commensurate with vehicle mileage. Switch in ignition and check warning light illuminations. Tachometer – 6 lights Centre screen – 4 light along the top Speedometer – 3 lights After self test, you should be left with Centre screen – Amber triangle and red battery symbol Speedometer – Red Seat belt warning and possibly green “lights on” depending on vehicle configuration. Check mileage and displayed outside air temperature Depending on how long car has been unused, voltage should be not less than 11.5volts, ideally between 12 – 13v Check all switches for correct function. 1. Horn 2. All external lights including brake lights and puddle light 3. All window operating switches (drivers door and individual doors). Check for auto closing (May just need reset if not operating) 4. Radio controls including steering wheel radio controls. Insert CD and check. 5. Speakers all working 6. Heater controls (not heated windscreens) 7. Winscreen wash / wipers 8. Electric seat – full range of movement in all axis. 9. Electric sunroof 10. Electric mirror adjustment 11. Check for quiet operation of electric parking brake (EPB) with correct indication (Red warning on tachometer. No amber warning) 12. Check other instruments for sensible indications (fuel gauge etc) 13. Check rear view mirror and adjust Start Engine. Engine start sequence should start immediately if warm or possible after a couple of seconds if engine cold on cold day. Battery light should extinguish. After a few seconds, voltage should rise to between 14-15v. Listen for unexpected noises. Check under bonnet. Check Suspension reacts correctly to raising and lowering commands| Check Remote operation of suspension using smart key (all doors closed and hazard warnings on – see handbook for further info) When ready to go on test drive, with EPB applied, select “D” and check EPB releases automatically when accelerating. Drive car normally and check for normal response from accelerator, brakes, steering etc. At slow speed, dab the brakes firmly. Any clunks could be indicative of worn front suspension arms. Check Command Shift steering wheel controls. Check for correct gear indication on centre screen. Check full steering lock in both directions When safe to do so, carry out emergency stop Perform heavy acceleration and check for smoke from exhaust or sounds indicative of blown turbo hose. Acceleration should be sharp with little lag. Check reverse gear Check Low ratio, forward and reverse If possible find a hill and check Hill Descent mode Check cruise control Check engine temperature gauge warming up and warm air from all vents Check air conditioning Switch off all heating and ventilation in attempt to induce misting of front and rear windscreen in order to check heated screens. If suspicion of windscreen not heating, placing a bag containing ice on the windscreen. This should induce condensation which should clear when windscreen heating put on. Remember front screen is split heating, LHS & RHS elements On return to parking, check parking sensors (front and rear and cameras if fitted). Using an assistant, check luggage compartment door safety interlock. It should not be possible to open the luggage compartment door with the engine running without gearbox selector at “P”. With engine still running ( select “P”” and EPB applied), open bonnet and check for signs of leaks and unexpected noises. Switch off engine. Voltage should remain at approx. 12.5-13v If possible, get codes read again for any faults which were still “live” during test drive. After approx 10 minutes since engine switch off, select oil level on service menu for correct level. Check all paperwork. • Service Record, receipts • MOT • V5C Registration document Do VINs agree? Do mileage records check out. Number of previous owners. If buying from franchise dealer, check all recalls are up to date. Ideally, car should now be placed on ramp for full underbody inspection with a good torch. Check for leaks, corrosion (brake pipes especially) damage, engine/gearbox protection covers in place etc etc. Using written notes you took during the inspection, negotiate the best price you can ! --- Can I add to the list: iPod & lead if you have one/ Aux lead (3.5mm jack at each end) USB stick with a couple of MP3 files DVD [Two quick questions: 1. How do I active the 'heated start' feature so I can ensure it works. I'll check the exterior of the car while this runs but how long should I give it before getting in to see if it worked? Obviously outside temp impacts this but should I feel heat from the vents after just a couple of mins? 2. How do I check low range and what do I look for? I've never driven a car with such before] 1. If you mean the Fuel Burning Heater (FBH) without the timed or remote heating, on a cold day it should start up automatically. You probably won't hear it over the sound of the engine but if you lift the bonnet you should feel the FBH exhaust pipe getting warm. It can get very hot after a while so be careful you don't burn yourself. You may hear it going into its cooling down phase if you then switch the engine off and the engine hasn't warmed up. Remember, it doesn't always fire up. If it has timed heating, you can set it to fire up on the info screen. If it has remote heating, you should be given a separate fob if it's a LR remote heating system but there is at least one non LR system which uses the existing butttons on the LR key. 2. With the gearbox in N, select low ratio and you should see the indicator light change. Drive away as normal and it should change through the gears but your speed will be significantly reduced. My wife's first experience with low ratio was when I left the car parked in low and she took it out to go shopping. I got an angry call very shortly thereafter saying there was something seriously wrong with the car as it was only reaching about 20mph with the engine revving highly ---- None of this is my work, all credit goest to Martin, the owner of that site Hope that helps

Hercu if you've got Robbie on the job you couldn't be in better hands Good luck

I'm not familiar with the TD6 so forgive if this is a silly question but is there any chance that the Turbo hose is failing? I had a D1 300tdi and the inside of the turbo hose delaminated. Under heavy revs it closed up causing the same sort of symptoms Only found it by reving the engine from under the bonnet and fidling Just a thought, HTH

I too had to smile when I looked up your lat & long, we really are at polar opposites. A different colour sand in your neck of the woods I believe. I bet that terrain keeps you on your toes. As you say, it has indeed been fun with a scattering of compulsory “half a crown and sixpence moments thrown” in. The down side is I'm going to have to relearn all the off road stuff when I get home 'cos like I said, "I don't do mud" Wheels wise, up to a certain model year you can change the rims out for smaller ones. As you know the definer for wheel size is the physical space the brakes take up. Apparently the only difference between certain model years is the size of the carriers which I believe are interchangeable. I’m not sure about the 4s So far I’ve stuck with the original 19” which have defied logic and were in place when those desert sand shots were taken. But there’s a lot less protection than one would hope for. Happily I snagged a set of 18” as a second set but I’ve yet to fit them. Get your dad to check out the UK site I posted. They have some seriously clued up chaps on there and its where I get all my info from. Without their support I wouldn’t have been brave enough to buy the car. Also point him at AULRO for even more D3 & 4 goodness. Anyhoo, when I had those gearbox symptoms it was down to a corroded wire in the loom in RHS footwell. When the sunroof drains block water ends up inside the car by the sill and there’s a particular wire connection that suffers causing all sorts of problems, which manifest themselves in a myriad of ways. Its a very easy fix. However similar issues can and seem to be far more commonly attributed to auto gearboxes of a certain mileage. Never mind all that “sealed for life nonsense”. It might be time for a gearbox oil & filter change. There’s a surprisingly effective temporary fix using a packet of Dr. Tranni, (and just to be clear that’s an oil additive that I'm advocating and not a life style change) but the permanent fix is generally an oil change. Check it out. Of course it might not be anything to do with either, such is the way of arm chair diagnostic sessions Those are a fine pair of ladies that you’re squiring there. I can see why it would be hard to put them to one side, even for younger model with a "fuller" figure.

CD, I need to eat some humble pie. On first pass I misread your comment and made a mistake in my answer when I wrote "I think you'll find that's only the commercial variants" At the time I thought you meant they were missing the second row. As you correctly say some D3s don't have a third road. Sorry for any confusion

BogMonster I have to say I haven’t driven the manual. My comments come from the perspective of moving from being a manual or nothing for off road person to driving an auto 110 and my D3. All I can say is that I’m a convert. Try making a gear change in sand with a manual, its doable but, well momentum is every thing Are you describing indecisiveness whilst off road? If so so that’s entirely possible, its generated by the selected programme and the surface conditions. Its cured by locking down the gearbox for the speed, revs and comfort that you’re happy with. If its happening on road that's quite a different issue. Its easy to plough them in, I’d like to say it doesn’t happen to me any more but I can’t fib. I’ve driven manual for so long that when its been a while between trips I forget and drive the “old way”. After some shovel work I’m reminded to check that I have the appropriate tyre pressure for the conditions and “DSC off, DSC off, DSC off” picture head slapping here :0) DSC re-sets with every start up and every Terrain Response change to setting selected. So the golden rule is make sure the DSC is off every time you go to move.Its a show stopper. Also when severely bogged rock climbing mode is your friend. Not too sure about that photo cos I don’t do mud :0) Buried past the axles you can easily self recover with max trax and minimal digging As was mentioned earlier its so comfortable its really easy to forget just how fast you’re going

Phoohey, I've just lost my post CD no problem at all, I take your comments as constructive and in no way offensive. I hope mine come across in the same manner And yes you are fully entitled to any opinion that you choose to hold. The point here is that you're offering a new comer to the vehicle what appears to be an experienced users advice that directly contradicts my every day experience as an owner driver. As such I feel its only fair to offer the OP what I consider to be the "real world" perspective, which is in direct opposition to a lot of what you've said. My experience has been gained over 30 years of off road driving in Oman. I started green as grass and have paid a lot school fees for the lessons that I've learned. During my stay I've lived and worked in arduous and remote areas. The terrain has been, desert, mountains, plains, dry & flowing wadis, sand storms etc. ect. etc. The vast majority of these were genuine exploration stroke border line expedition. On other occasions I've organised formal expeditions to remote areas for a variety of projects. I've literally driven thousands of miles off road, on many occasions I've transported & towed boats from inflatables and 2.5m RIBs up to 8m hard boats, for hundreds of miles per trip over graded roads and on arrival launched them from remote sandy and or gravel beaches with no formal vehicle access. I've done the same with off road trailers and of course without. I've led family and commercial groups on desert & coastal trips and I frequently go to the desert solo, (Please assume all necessary precautions were in place) well apart from the dog that is. During that time I've driven Classic Range Rover, 110 V8, Defender V8, Disco 1 300tdi, Disco 2 V8 and for the last five years a D3 V8HSE For work purposes I've driven a multitude of Toyotas but have no desire to own one. My last trip was with an a semi pro Aussie photographer, his names credited on one of the photos. How about you?

No disrepect intended to this forum but have a look at http://disco3.co.uk join up and have a good read. All issues, fixes and mods are well documented. The diesel D3s got sorted and are awesome. following their advice you'll be able to make an informed decision and have the support to look after it with minimal tears "Yes - just recently I have been thinking that a D4 might be a better choice... (but still considering all options)" Definitely the way to go Ooooooh no., I promised my self I wouldn't do this again ..... "The D3 by comparison is a completely different kettle of fish. It is far more "car like" to be in and drive. This arguably makes them nicer on the road, but somehow they feel less "4x4 like"." Until you get it off road and then the perma grin just gets bigger and bigger You'll call the car "Martini" because she'll look at you and say "Dad, any terrain, any time, any where ... just bring it" For 70% (an arbitary number chasen just for pure badness & devilry) of owners the car will outperform their abilities. All you have to do is fit the right tyres, use the appropriate pressure and you can become your groups "Official Discovery 2 Recovery Vehicle!" "The D3 is a more complex vehicle regardless of if people service them at home or not. It simply has more gear on it, more electronics and more features." To a degree yes that's true, but its not that big a deal. Its a learning curve. Just like you have to learn / modify how you approach driving the D3, you'll do the same with how you service, fault find and fix it. "But there is no denying they are big and heavy. They essentially weigh a Lotus Elise more than earlier Discovery's." And like Rod Stewart's Maggie May, they wear it well. It'll float effortless across powdery sand, it'll even launch boats from beaches if you do your bit, every day in UK they're pulling horse boxes in muddy fields "But the real deal killer for me was the optional rear diff locker on the D3. This isn't something that can be retro fitted (unless things have changed??)." It can't be retro fitted :Some will say you don't need it" And they're absolutely correct "But it's one of those things, it was available, I know I'd use it and would always lament not having it." So just buy the model / configuration that you want. You pays your money and takes yer pick. What's the problem"? CD, forgive me for asking but have ever driven one off road in anger? I don't mean a trip to Sainsbury's, I mean have you really spanked one" I apologise if I'm wrong but it doesn't sound as if you have "If you want to off road, there is no denying the D3 is massive." Reminds me of MotoMoto from Penguins of Madagascar ..... "They a call me MotoMoto, I'm so big they named me twice" "And bumpers and sills are highly vulnerable and expensive to protect or repair." Which is why you change the suspension height for one appropriate for the terrain Which I might add will be customisable with the little box of goodness that they cal the IID2 BT There's an awesome video of a guy climbing his up a very steep rock wall. He starts on level ground with his bumper almost touching. First you think he's going to rip the bumper off and then you think he's going to literally fall off the wall but he makes it look easy. "I would want a V8" Its what I drive, HSE, and its great but I wanted a diesel and they're not available here. "or a manual diesel" Seriously, do not go this way. It'll truly devalue the experience of owning the car Its like blokes taking off the electronic air suspension, I mean really why would you do that? In fairness before the D3 I was foresworn to manual but now I wouldn't go back "If buying a vehicle like this, you might as well buy as high a spec as possible and get as many of the goodies and optional extras you can" Absoballylutely, its all about the toys and they are wonderful. "Many diesel manuals don't have the rear seats" I think you'll find that's only the commercial variants "To make it worse, because the rear locker is a bit obscure, it is never mentioned in any adverts and even speaker to sellers they have no idea how to confirm if it is present or not." Follow the link I gave, you'll get that information along with a comprehensive prepurchase check list and various simple functionality tests to help you make a decent purchase "Meaning the only way to know is to go and physically inspect the vehicle yourself." But surely you'd do that as a matter of course in the same way as people check a horse's teeth "As an alternative option. If you don't need the extra rear seating of the D3, then the RRS becomes a viable option." I've never driven one but when I looked inside I seem to remember it wasn't nearly as spacious or user friendly cargo wise "The biggest benefit of the RRS is the more abundant availability of V8's or even supercharged V8's or TDV8's." Personally the last thing I'd want to be doing would be looking toward a retirement purchase and having to feed a petrol V8 at UK prices. You know CD I think you feel about D3s the way I feel about D2s and that's ok I wanted one too but as others told me at the time it isn't necessary Muddy I couldn't agree with you more on both points And to prove the point, we only have to hop over to the Aus forum and see where they're taking theirs and what they're towing behind them. Surely they can't all be wrong as well as me But the sentiment is spot on. Again, follow the link and do the research In fairness & for the sake of full disclosure, yet still totally disagreeing with you about the loathsome D2, I must confess that in the past I have made all the same negative D3 observations and comments as you. I never envisioned a time when I would own such a beast. At the time I hadn't driven one. Knowing I would need a replacement in the future, having totally rejected the idea of a Disastrous 2 and being OCD I spent ages researching possible replacements & begrudgingly arrived at the D3. Armed with my prejudices I was totally totally prepared to remain a nay sayer and ignore the over whelming positive facts that I'd discovered right up until the moment I drove one. And the rest as they say is history. Here endeth the lesson, peace be with you brother

"I don’t see it as a marmite car at all" And yet we're at polar opposites in our opinions. Isn't that the definition of "marmite"? "None are D2’s. So I’m no manically defending a fanboy position." That made me smile. Any how why not, its your prerogative to do so and I respect that .... even if I don't agree with it :0) No, the problems I encountered were specifically D2 problems from personal experience From the D1 electronics list I did miss off the alarm system "A D2 uses the same V8 engine, same gearboxes, same transfer box and largely the same axles (just better)." All of which is apples and oranges when comparing it with a 300tdi "With a centre diff lock the D2 will perform equally to a D1 if the TCS isn’t working, with it working however, it has far superior off road ability." No sir, not in my experience. I've run the same conditions as a very experienced off road colleague in a D2, configured as you described, and the D1 was equal to it. "As for length. Again, how can you like a bigger D3, then claim the D2 is too big??" I don't think I said a D2 was too big. I said D2 was marketed as being bigger but that in my experience it made no real world difference to what you could put in it or how easily you could put stuff in it. I think we should do a Captain Jack Sparrow and "agree to disagree" and not derail the thread any further 😁

Hercu, I hope when I said "Mind Change" it didn't come across as being rude in any way. If it did I apologise it wasn"t meant in that context I'm a 1959 model so I fully understand where you're coming from :0)

Humblest apolgies I misread the comment However as it happens my comments apply equally, apart from the fact that my D1 was slower The D2 didn't go anywhere or carry anything better than a D1. But IMHO the D2s that I have experience of where plagued with issues whee as my D1 just got on with it Bottom line, lets agree to differ

CD I have to disagree IMHO, be it on road or be it off road, in no way is the D2 better than the D3 Hercu ""make good friends with someone with a diagnostic reader.".." From both the standard owner and the "working on it" perspectives, you have to change your mind set. A multi meter and a IID tool, BT version preferred, are essential tools that you'd carry in the same way as you carry a jack Every owner should budget for one and keep it in the car. I should have said earlier that I have the V8 but other than the engine the other systems are the same as the TDs Once you see how they're put together the "fear factor" goes away. They are as straightward to work on as any other LR And there is a truly excellent level of support available on the Internet. So much so that if the support wasn't as good as it is the fear factor would have prevented me from buying a D3

CD, no worries, I'm sure we wont agree on this and that's OK There are many, many, many happy D2 fans out there, unfortunately I'm not one of them I liked the D1 because of its simplicity, economy, reliability and comfort. I moved to it from a 110 hence the comfort comment. It did every thing the 110 could do including load carrying but the improvement in comfort was an order of magnitude greater. I used it in desert, mountain and beach conditions and worked it very hard in extreme conditions. It was awesome. For me it remains the ultimate bug out vehicle, remember I said the only electronics on it applied to the electric windows so the only problems were ever going to be standard electrics & fuel. What's not to love about that? The D2 was a loaner that I had for a year. It belonged to a mate who doted over the car and worked through every system as a passion. Like you he's a great fan of the D2 having previously owned the D1 200tdi. He still runs a D2 as his off road vehicle, sadly not the same one. Whilst I was grateful for the loan and needed it, having watched so many other people have problems with them I was really worried about taking the keys. And rightly so, it turned out to be the most unreliable vehicle I've driven In fairness, he never had an issue with it but for me every week it was some thing else. I'm not going to get into the saga of what went wrong with it but suffice to say I wouldn't take one to any of the places that I listed above unless there was tarmac within 200 meters. You may want to sit down for this next bit ..... For me the D2 was the most over rated LR that I've ever driven. It had zero improvements over my D1 300tdi, in fact it didn't do anything better, go any where better, wasn't any more comfortable What it added was electronics and length. The electronics were a PIA for many people and the additional length was a joke. In fact in real world useage it was unnoticeable I view the D2 as the LR project that the designers never finished. It was a development step between D1 & D3 that should never have been released. IMHO it was only released so that LR could say they had a new model. I see it as the prototype that didn't work properly and that was released before known faults were fixed. At the end of the day its a marmite car, you love it or you hate it, I hated it and I'll repeat what I said earlier. If the only LR available to me was a D2 I'd move to another manufacturer. The only exception to this might be a TD5, I've never driven one. Before the D3 I really wanted to try a TD5 but couldn't get my hands on one. I'd be willing to test one out but it would be with a very jaundiced eye and I wouldn't be prepared to pay big money for one.

+1 for what reb78 said I've never tried a TD5 but I had a 110 and a 300 tdi D1 and particularly loved the D1. The only electronics it had were the windows, it was unstoppable. I had a D2 V8 and absolutely loathed it. So much so that if the if the only LR choice was a D2 I'd be looking at another make However the D3 is an awesome vehicle. It'll go any where the 110 or D2 will go, carries a heap of gear and super comfy Really, the ride is excellent, it you're in one that's wallowing there's some thing wrong with it. However, like all old motors it'll need work to make sure its reliable. So to be affordable IMHO you need to be able to do the work your self and budget accordingly for it in your purchase price. As reb78 said, it all sounds and looks a bit scary at first but once you get into its very straight forward If its been looked after and you keep the maintenance up you'll develop a perma grin every time you sit behind the wheel. If you buy a poorly maintained one be prepared to go through and carry out preemptive maintenance on every major system. In fact that's what you should regardless of its condition if for nothing more that peace of mind. If you can't do the work yourself that might hurt your pocket a fair bit HTH

You're most welcome. Let us know how you get on

Hi Hercu Have you had water ingress at some time, perhaps blocked sun roof drains causing wet carpet & water / dampness in the sills? The reason I ask is that there's a notorious wiring junction that is easily corroded under such circumstances. It throws up an enormous range of random faults & symptoms such as HDC, gearbox change issues, special programmes unavailable and a host more. I had it on mine. Its a red wire forming a "Y" connection in the loom bundle located in the drivers footwell close to the kick panel. I'm really sorry but I'm struggling to find either a suitable link or photos of it at the mo. Ureka, only an hour later 😁 The thread can be found at https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/transmission-fault-hdc-traction-control-off-etc-137607.html?highlight=U0416-86+(2F)&start=15 HTH Untitled.tiff

+1 for the Portasol

Its defo an air fitting, I'm using the same thing on my D3 x2 on its suitability for fuel use

I vaguely remember threads suggesting TD5 chassis metal was thinner and construction less beefy e.g. cross member Have I understood correctly? I'm wondering if a TD5 chassis would be a better/cleaner base for a rebuild.

Today I filled the fuel filter and put a jerry of diesel into the tank. Hand priming with the lever wasn't an option as the lines were dry so I turned it over two or three times and it sprang to life. As you say its self priming. All in all a result. Many thanks for every one's replies, much appreciated Olly