Eightpot

Old original bosch 200 nozzle compared to new DTP nozzle, also old & new needles. New nozzles fitted - too early to tell if there's much difference though there seems to be less knock and maybe a little cleaner mid range. Did a timed run up a long speed sapping hill this morning, will compare results later.

200tdi nozzles made by DTP have just arrived. Compared to an old 300tdi nozzle the holes do appear smaller - possibly due to wear but I suspect they may well be the correct spec rather than rebadged 300 nozzles. Will pop them in soon and test.

If the pistons look ok - a few dots of surface rust or lots of silt/mud then a careful clean should be ok. Lubricate them with a few drops of brake fluid and carefully lever them back squarely- I use a big inch spanner. You'll need to make sure the other pistons cant close up to the disk by wedging with something - I use another big spanner. When it's all the way back, press brake pedal, lube and repeat till it moves freely.

You'd struggle to get going with no outer bearing at all, but a disintegrated cage with rollers knocking about will pack it out for a short while till they get ground down and spat out - not helped by big offset wheels. Once the hub can slide over while rotating anti-clockwise, off come the nuts and fairly quickly the whole show unravels. You can see what appears to be the stub axle on the photo, when you should be seeing hub. It would have been pretty obvious for a while something serious was wrong - a pity they couldn't prove it. Edit - actually on looking again I think the bit that looks like a stub axle or something is the end of the rockslider. Cant see whats going on with the hub.

Jack each wheel up and check the caliper pistons aren't stuck - very common for them to get muddy/rusty and not withdraw after pushing out. A clean up with a scraper, bit of brake fluid and wet/dry paper then pushing them back & forth helps. You might also just have old worn injectors. Check handbrake not binding too.

It's uncomfortable because the girl has been referenced and identified within the thread, so we're kind of picking over her accident scene - that said I am interested in the cause of the failure, more so as the vehicle examiners remarks don't seem to make sense, but I don't know how we could move any further forward on that without seeing the car or the report. Edit - Reading through a few more news excerpts and filling in some spaces, my own thoughts are that either the stub axle snapped or more likely the hub locknuts unwound with the force of a rotating broken bearing behind them.

Funny - I messaged them today as well and got a price on 200Tdi nozzles - quoted £48+vat for genuine Bosch kits which include O rings/washers. Also quoted £30+vat for DTP nozzles. Not a bad price but the address checks out to be a residential house. I have had similar prices from a couple of diesel parts specialists. Also had a quote from Darwen diesels on 200 nozzels - £15.25+vat each for DTP brand. I think at that price I might get a set and check them out.

Very useful thanks - so in summary we're stuck with slightly unobtainable genuine 200tdi nozzles, aftermarket 200tdi nozzles or 300tdi nozzles. According to my very fallable maths, the total area of the 300tdi five .26mm holes is 17% larger than five .24mm holes. Seems like quite a jump but I wonder if theres a noticeable difference in operation.

300/200 pumps are direct swaps, have also used 300 pumps on 200 engines, no difference in operation. So from the data I can find so far, aside from some minor timing differences there seems to be no difference in the pumps internally. Crack pressures on 200/300 injectors seem to be the same - 200 then 280 bar So if pump is the same, injector pressures the same, the slightly bigger nozzle holes would alter the spray slightly - maybe in conjunction with the modified pistons/combustion area it's part of the revision to remove some of the clatter when they changed to 300?

interesting. So is there a difference between 200/300 FIP and the mount of fuel delivered or it's pressure? Assuming there's no difference in the output charge, then the difference with the injector is the way the spray is delivered - slightly higher volume/lower pressure/shorter duration? Maybe the 300 nozzle holes needed to be slightly larger to allow for the first low pressure pulse stage. mybe doen't attomize well with the smaller hole? More reading to be done..🤓

Yes maybe, they seem to be that kind of company. I guess ultimately the only real answer is a bench test and see what squirts out the end. If the ebay ones work the same its almost a moot point if they're genuine or not, even if they don't last quite as long.

It may well be that nobody at Bosch has much of an idea now as it's a bit of a legacy part - the designer and product team could well be retired now - but if you can figure out which team 'owns' the product and can navigate there through various switchboards you might get lucky. I'd have thought some of the old boys in bosch service centres and diesel refurb guys like diesel bob may well have a better idea, but would prob have to ring round a bit till you struck the right guy.

I've put a td5 rad/intercooler on, but in front of an Isuzuz 2.8 which isn't too disimilar- I wouldn't say it was any improvement over a tdi rad though without doing something more scientific than driving round with it isn't much help. I did drive round Sudan with it though in 50 degrees and did manage to boil the engine in soft going sand, I've never overheated a properly working 200/300tdi set up in similar temps, so I do disagree with the thought they are undercooled. The obvious difficulty with the td5 intercooler is routing the pipework

Worst offenders for me are the out of shape beardy types with poetry tattoos, grey jogging suits displaying an arse crack, billowing a trail of cherry vape fumes razzing round in the cheapest lifted disco they can find. They can't manage trousers with buttons never mind mechanical maintenence. Glad its not just me getting old and grumpy 😄

I don't think this will work 🤣 just had to catch myself on there - I should probably get back to work before I do something silly

I guess observing the spray pattern is key, would be interesting to compare with a 300tdi nozzle. Now I'm think about pulling the internals out and rigging an injector up to an airline and blowing thinners through..

Well I've just pulled an injector from a 200tdi and put it next to the 300tdi nozzle. I can't discern any difference in hole location and cant see any physical difference - measured with a micrometer and both precisely the same. I guess any difference in angle of the hole probably isn't visible to the naked eye.

Yes same nozzle. Very feint part number etched - dsla145p366

Hang on a min - my eyes are struggling a bit with these tiny holes - on closer inspection the holes are at different angles - Just above halfway, halfway, below halfway

Just pulled the nozzle from a 300tdi - looking very much like your ebay nozzle monkie, spay holes in the same position which I think is safe to assume gives the different spray angle.

I would think Bosch might be happy to give some input if it highlights possible fakes - or perhaps ask the ebay seller why his differ from the one shipped by Bosch.. I'll dig a couple of injectors out at work today and pull the nozzles for comparison

That's the guys I've used - yes good quality.

There was a company advertising hood frames on ebay up till recently, have bought from them in the past & was well made - can't remember the name though and can't see them now.. If you can find a local tube benders it's easy enough to copy the original frame in wider tube - had one made up recently by a guy that builds classic motorcycle frames

I think you can use the 300tdi tank pickup which can be connected with normal hose and hose clips. Don't know if the resistance of the sender is in the same range though.

The spray holes are in a different place on the ebay ones?