ThreePointFive

It's the MAF sensor.

Isn't that the sensor hanging out on the intake pipe? I give up. I shouldn't be allowed near cars.

Sorry, meant to confirm that yes I am operating a MS system on a 4.0 V8. Annoyingly I've got it to run the best it has been in a long time, but the kangarooing did start around the last few tune iterations. I just put it down to coincidence as I don't drive it very much unless it's to tune it or drive off road where I might have ruined the underpinnings.

I didn't edit that part, not sure what you saw! What I meant was, I didn't want to bring it up and waste your time if it had obvious non-tune issues I needed to sort first but it seems it's all the same. I'll take it for a drive and try out the data logging. Junglie, yes the Megasquirt kit is MAF based so this is also adding into the engine side being the cause.

But I haven't brought it to you for tuning until I get this pitching issue sorted..... I'll look at the tune. I think it's a mixture of worn mounts, a lot of play in the driveline and this map issue all combined. I'm not ruling out UJs though, I'm not messing with those going wrong.

Interesting thoughts, thanks for the responses. I'll need to look at the exact RPMs but they've got to be upwards of 1200, it doesn't seem set to a specific engine speed but I will test that some more. I have set my idle high as it stops the cold start stalling issues I have in cold weather which might be changing when this kicks in. Normally I change up a gear as my solution, it drops the revs lower of course but it seems to flatten it out. I had my money on mounts after some Googling, so I've ordered Glencoyne ones. I would be surprised if they've failed in 1000 miles, but they will be quite old by now - not that it's much of an excuse. It is the banging noises that accompany the motion that still make me think there is a huge amount of slack in the drivetrain. I am worried it's not going to be cheap. I'll see if I can play with the tune a bit, and if there's any opportunity to get the mounts changed to at least rule them out.

Enjoyable to read/see. Please do keep the updates coming.

The information from Grenadier has been notably vague throughout, it has allowed people to project their every want and desire upon it to the point it's become a complete unicorn. I would say this has been entirely deliberate. What I struggle with is how a vehicle with this complexity at this price point is doing anything that a base spec G Wagen or Defender II isn't, but with added unknowns over build quality and reliability. If anything, the inclusion of a BMW powertrain is a worrying sign for the latter. Change this statement to talk about the Defender II and I'm afraid still holds up for me. If anything, I think the Defender will end up being more capable off road. Yes, through electronic 'cheating' but who cares how you got where you need to go? All of this confusion is a direct result of Jimmy's statement along the lines that LR had betrayed it's original customer base and he would heroically build the successor to the Defender, for the everyman that needed a working vehicle and wouldn't spend new Defender money on something that has to work. What is the Grenadier doing to meet that mission statement when all comparisons with the original no longer apply? Does it really come down to looking sort of like one if you squint? The real new-Defender is a Jimny.

I have been battling with an issue that I thought was engine tune related but it's getting worse/more violent and it's definitely transmission based. The car is pitching violently back and forth with accompanying clonks from underneath. It starts small and gets into a cycle where it's like the pitching sets off more pitching until you are being thrown around. It will happen when rolling on flat ground and keeping a steady speed with the engine doing minimal work. Moving in traffic or rolling at 30 for example. It's does not happen when accelerating or off the throttle and decelerating, or going up/down hill while maintaining a steady speed. It will not happen with the transmission under load of any sort. It gets less pronounced at higher speed I assume because (being a brick) you're always under load of one sort or another. Depressing the clutch will end the pitching immediately. Re-engaging the clutch in the same gear and no other changes, it will restart. Changing gear up or down can help but it's not a solution and it doesn't always make a difference (again, if the loading doesn't change). It can happen in any gear, changes are typical LT85-buttery smooth and there's no undue noises from the box in any other operation. The revs rise and fall when this happens but I think that's a symptom of the constant acceleration/deceleration of the jerking, not a cause. The engine is not stalling or running rough and would go straight to constant idle if the clutch is depressed. My thought was layshaft/mainshaft wear and the play is hammering itself to death, but the shafts were replaced 500 miles ago. I have another idea but I want to see what answers are and not influence thinking. I can take a video if it'll help. Any ideas?

You make a good point (well, several) about it being BMW. Has anyone checked if they'll let you have "access" to the diff locks or if they're a £30/month subscription? I've come to realise that my problem - if I have one - is with Ineos and not with the vehicle. If I'm 'anti', it's because of the morally dubious (in my opinion) way this vehicle has been marketed and produced, I probably like the car itself. As such, I intend to tone down the rhetoric. A bit. But that said, we need to remember that according to Ineos' own mission statements this is a replacement for the old Defender, not a rival to the new one. The yard stick for complexity is the previous model. If it was Land Rover's desertion of producing a simple, rugged, easily maintainable workhorse and the Grenadier fills that gap, then surely the new model is an irrelevance as a comparator. So when discussing electrics, it should not be how many fewer ECUs it has than the new one, but how many more it has than the old and could it have done without them.

And if you forget, it will get harmlessly pushed up out of the way off road anyway. Not like those fold down side steps that more likely fold sideways and take out the sills while they're doing it. I was admiring what a neat solution it was just the other day. What an interesting life I lead.

Besides, it's a British designed, British-built 4x4 being made in Britain by British craftsmen. Someone should give Jim Radcliffe a look at how it's done.

I quite like these. For the numbers they're actually going to sell, the price is sort of what you expect to pay for such a bespoke thing. I doubt they're taking the best examples to begin with so it's probably keeping a few that would otherwise be scrapped on the road. Much less offensive than the tart jobs done on so many Defenders in the last 5 years. People paid £60k for a few bits of baggy leather and some wide alloys without blinking. Those same cars being a struggle to move on at 25k now, though... These Range Rovers have actual work in them at least.

Fair comments, I was taken aback by the response towards the system. Also some annoyance that it was an outright no rather than letting me decide based on the likelihood of a sub-optimal result. I did like the idea of paying someone rather than constantly relying on kindness and favours, too. MS is still the best system for me thanks to the support around it, but again, that relies on this forum and the patience of people.

Reviving this as weirdly it came up today. I have been looking at how to get my car to be the nicest to drive that it can be and a rolling road in Somerset was highly recommended (PVE tuning). As the website said they do work with MS, I called them but it turns out they dont. They were not kind about MS and stated there are always problems with it. It's an interesting one as the best environment for tuning has to be a rolling road with the proper sensors and tools but it's off-limits because I'm on MS. I've made some assumptions about the cost and complexity of a new kit - whatever that might be - I can't see a change being justifiable but that's resigning myself to a 'good enough' tune for the life of the vehicle. I'm also not sure how compatible most kits would be with such rudimentary engines. Further research required.

I think I paid 600 to have mine done as a separate item. That was for all of the panel including the invisible bits when fitted. I'm glad I did because I wanted minimal matting and the footwells are something you see a lot of the time.

It's unfortunate that we've had such similar experiences all the way through but good to have a reference for problems. I think an idle valve is now essential, as much as I don't want to run one. I can't achieve a result I'm happy with it seems. I get all the logical reasons but I'm never going to get an auto box, I just can't do it to the level of quality I want as I'd have to have the full 50th spec centre console and all the trimmings which would cost the same as a box of unknown quality. I already can't justify the cost of this thing. I like your idea of adding the increments for revs, I think there's something to that. I just need to find out how to add the additional columns as I don't have buttons for that! Likewise I've not got the options @Bowie69has on the accelerator enrichment, I'm limited to RPM-based enrichment which I think is back to front for addressing this issue. There is the accelerator wizard but I don't want to use it as I know from my experience with the autotune feature that it doesn't end well - which is a main reason why I think the suggestion of a wide band sensor is probably a good one. I've never trusted the readings I'm getting which is backed up by the autotune getting good gauge readings but horrible maps. I have to go purely by smoke/smell.

Really good to read your first hand experience, Jeremy.

Going to Bowyer's site so a nice gentle one to get everything shaken down. Do you have any screenshots of where to do the acceleration adjustment? I have a lot of options in TS and I am now reluctant to touch too much without knowing the effect after my recent adventure to the hard shoulder. I don't necessarily believe the laptop being unplugged was the cause but the timing was incredibly similar. It was plugged in on the laptop but the screen said it wasn't getting the feed from the ECU - which in itself is weird as it had been the whole time - and when I pulled the cable out of the laptop, it lost all power. I have been out today and was able to connect straight in . Nothing like intermittent fault to boost your spirits... I have loaded the last known-good map but one that still has my fine throttle issue so I'll need to at least improve that before Saturday. I didn't want to rely on other people sorting my problems out even though I did joke about getting you to take a look at it. I now think it's essential someone who knows what they're doing looks at it! In return for suitable compensation, of course. I'll PM you for dates that work in the next few weeks. And I can do hill starts in any other manual car! I wonder if it would even keep running if it was an auto.....

I have been playing with this, the car was running very well on the first run today. It had plenty of power and seemed smoother and quieter. However, in trying to get it to not stall so easily around idle, nothing seems to work. I have tried every combination of advancing/retarding timing and lean/rich fuel but nothing seems to make any real difference. The symptom seems to be that when the throttle is lightly/slowly pressed with no load, it will bog down to nearly stalling before rising. However, if the throttle is pressed with intent (as if pulling away from the lights), it will rev smoothly. The problem is that when doing hill starts, you need three feet to keep it running and when trying to do fine adjustment it bogs. I'm going to be driving off road on Saturday so the last thing I want is to be pegging the throttle for delicate maneuvers Is an idle valve the answer to all this? In more disturning, while on the motorway I pulled the USB cable out of the laptop while running Tunerstudio and the car lost all power immediately. It didn't properly cut out until I stopped but I had a very worrying wait for it to restart and then acted unhappily as if the map had changed significantly to over fuel. The ECU now isn't talking with the laptop at all despite otherwise functioning normally so I have no way to tell what's changed. I regret saying this is all part of the fun in my last post, it just feels like this car is a constant kick in the nuts as I am not willing to put other road users (or my passengers) at risk from a vehicle I can't trust to keep running.

I don't see the reset, should it be obvious? A search doesn't show it either. On a run it's still quite well behaved but thirsty and I believe it's down on power from what I've had it doing previously. I already have the screw set to about 800rpm when the engine is warm, I wish it could sit lower and still be happy on warm up. Adjusting it to 600 when warm makes it impossible to keep going when cold. I have had a play and it liked more fuel and more timing advance from a cold start so I think that's onto something. It stopped hunting and smoothed right out so I think my warm-up enrichment had gone too conservative from when I last played with it in warmer weather. However, I realised it was very far advanced (20ish at idle) by the time I'd finished playing with it so I've had to back that off again. Is there any way to adjust the timing with temperature? I don't see it in TS. I've found that I can tune everything to run quite well when it's warm, but after a proper cool down it can seem unhappy on that same map even when it gets back up to temperature. It's almost as if the ECU is adjusting things after the fact. Having put Tunerstudio on autotune and driven around, I know that any adjustment the car/ecu is seeing doesn't result in a good map. Having looked at the differences a bit of timing made, I don't think I am on the right lines with the HT leads but I do need to bin these awful red ones once it's running well. All part of the fun, quite enjoying it.

Seeing it with the doors and tub on it's suddenly looking like a car. I cannot wait to see what it ends up like.

It seems like I might have asked something stupid in the above post, so while I'm on a roll.. I'm trying to get a set of HT leads to replace the ones I have. I don't trust the quality as I found one had just fallen completely off. And importantly I do not want red, it doesn't fit with the standard look and on an engine making less than 200 bhp, not really appropriate. Genuine looks to be no-go on availability as more than price, so that's out. There's a dirt cheap, grey, application-correct set.......of Britpart ones, so naturally I am trying not to buy those. Or there's these at £40 but Only available in RED... Because RED means SERIOUS. So I'm trying not to buy these either. They'd be perfect if not for being too "serious". But that only leaves me with Magnecor. at £115 +VAT, I don't think they can really work magic...can they? I would make my own but by the time I've bought the components and the tools I'll never use again I'll be somewhere along the way towards the Magnecors. So how important are the leads really, what would anyone recommend and why?

While trying to run in the new lifters, I had interesting behaviour in MS. Holding at 3k revs, the car was almost constantly popping from the exhaust. This was not like backfires or the 'pops and crackles' of badly-modified Fiesta ST fame, but very gentle. It didn't sound right, but nor did it seem to affect much. However, occasionally there would be a bigger event which was audible as a thump from inside the cab but not outside, weirdly. You would have to put on earphones to hear it, but you will see the pulsewidth and O2 sensors showing that something was happening. This would be once about every 30 seconds on average, but there may be a sequence of two or three within seconds. I won't try to describe the sequence of events, this video will do that better: MS Missfire.mp4 Don't blame me for the filming in portrait, that was a mate who was watching the gauges as I ran around looking for leaks/smoke/fire. When driving, there was no appreciable issue with power, stuttering or misfires. In more general driving the car is quite keen to stall and does lose revs when the fans kick on so it needs some adjustment there. It also doesn't want to keep running without throttle applied when cold (I can see that's quite normal) but it will need light throttle to keep running after only 10 minutes between runs, as though it is starting from cold even then. Any ideas where I should look for easy things to rule out in these scenarios?

I would have liked a lot more technical input from Sir Lewis about the handling. Besides Chris Harris and a few others, he is one of the few people that has the ability to put those qualities into words that others can understand so a missed opportunity. It might not be a "handling" car but it's significant to sales for people to know how it is to drive. Otherwise a nice video. You'll also notice the edit after Jimmy asks Sir Lewis what he thinks of the looks....