blowmeover Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Having a few ''issues'' with mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 It's a indirect injection engine, so has a pre combustion chamber in each cylinder, the 'hotspots' in these are able to fall out & they are not screwed into the head, as the engine is not intercooled & wasn't designed to be it can & does suffer from heat stress cracks in the head,pistons, my original 19J died at 102,360 miles, it's cracked head allowed the coolant & oil to mix in to a black sludge which blocked the air filter, the oily sludge was dripping out of the filter casing, this 19J was replaced with a 200tdi Defender spec LR repower kit, in mid 1994, I recently rebuilt the 200tdi after 24 years & 390,000 miles of service, it is working very well. from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_engines#Diesel_Turbo_(Engine_Code_19J) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowmeover Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 Ive had a loud tapping coming from mine for a week and a half now, then it boiled over, oil in the coolant but no coolant in the oil, it didn't exactly boil over, it pressurized the coolant system. The head is off and I can see a few breeches in the head gasket but none that reach the water jacket or oil , a few cracked pistons (all of them) but nothing that can make a ticking noise. Hot spots are cracked but I dont think they were making contact with the pistons. I will load some photos up in a while when I get them all loaded up to Imgur. Anyhow, its my daily drive, so I dont know wether to chuck money at it or buy an old banger as a stop gap. This is it when it was running Ok but ticking. It still had good power, nothing from the exhaust , ran pretty much as it always ran. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS-f-uFAf8E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) As its your daily drive I would get a new top end gasket set, clean up the head and block. Change the oil and coolant just to get you running again in the short term. Long term, look for a replacement engine, maybe a tdi Edited October 5, 2019 by monkie Extra info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowmeover Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 There was a lot of ash in the combustion chambers, its defo been blowing oil or has a fueling issue, some ash oil too. The hot spots are cracked but secure, they do sit proud in the chambers though. The pistons have properly had it. I reckon you are right, put a new gasket on there and wing it! I am hoping this was the reason for the ticking but I fear it might have been a piston contacting a hot spot, or something more sinister! I might whip the sump off just to have a look. The only things in there are the oil pump and the oil jets underneath the pistons, but worth checking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I wouldn't have thought a piston will have hit a hot spot unless one has fallen out. They should fit slightly proud of the head face, they are held in place once the head is on the block. Those pistons do look in a bad way though. What year is your engine from? I wouldn't bother with the bottom end unless you really want to. I would just put it all back together to get you going then source a replacement ASAP. Even though I'm one of the very few fans of the 19j and have a rebuilt one, for a daily drive I'd go for a Tdi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowmeover Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, monkie said: I wouldn't have thought a piston will have hit a hot spot unless one has fallen out. They should fit slightly proud of the head face, they are held in place once the head is on the block. Those pistons do look in a bad way though. What year is your engine from? I wouldn't bother with the bottom end unless you really want to. I would just put it all back together to get you going then source a replacement ASAP. Even though I'm one of the very few fans of the 19j and have a rebuilt one, for a daily drive I'd go for a Tdi. Ive been running 19J's for the best part of 15 years, I really dont mind them, I do a country road commute so the lack of speed and power doesnt really bother me. I have read your rebuild thread and its impressive, inspiring even. I am not too keen on a TDI, simply because the 200's are few and far between and if I do find one it will be pretty worn out by this stage and a 300 will be a faff. If I can find a stop gap TD or N/A for not a lot of money I can pull this one and rebuild it, its a late version, probably one of the last built so its gotta be worth spending a few quid (tdi money) on it to rebuild it. How is yours, is it still running Ok? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Thank you for the compliment. Good to find someone else in the fan club! I got a late 19j (1990 I think) and rebuilt it. I paid about £200 for it and spend about 400 or 500 on the rebuild. If you can get a few more months out of yours I would get another one and rebuild it then put in. Keep your old as a spare. Mine is still running great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowmeover Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 I do like them, quiet, smooth, easy to work on, they arnt too bad in the power side, they can sit with traffic, in town, moving slowly! Mine can do at least 55 mph, had my last one at nearly 70 but I got frightened and backed off! Ive gone through two in 15 years, the last one had the usual cracked pistons and was breathing but it ran fine, I finally killed it by driving it into a pond and bending a con rod, I was going to rebuild that but the bent rod took a chunk out of the side of the cylinder skirt so I scrapped it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Looks like at least one piston has cracked right through from side to side. The sort of thing that can cause that ticking, so take them out to check it's not going right through as well. Things will only get worse! The head doesn't look bad, though. I've often wondered if the worst failing of that engine is actually the omission of an intercooler. Given that pistons cracking is most likely caused by excessive heat - they run relatively high compression ratio for a turbo diesel - and the intake charge is comparatively hot without an intercooler, it's something of the perfect storm for cracked pistons and localised head cracks. There's no disadvantage to running an intercooler, so if you're going to rebuild the 19j, you might as well and reap the benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, lo-fi said: Looks like at least one piston has cracked right through from side to side. The sort of thing that can cause that ticking, so take them out to check it's not going right through as well. Things will only get worse! The head doesn't look bad, though. I've often wondered if the worst failing of that engine is actually the omission of an intercooler. Given that pistons cracking is most likely caused by excessive heat - they run relatively high compression ratio for a turbo diesel - and the intake charge is comparatively hot without an intercooler, it's something of the perfect storm for cracked pistons and localised head cracks. There's no disadvantage to running an intercooler, so if you're going to rebuild the 19j, you might as well and reap the benefits. Will a tdi inlet manifold fit onto a 19j to make the fitting of an intercooler easier? It is something I've thought about doing for a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 It might the manifold gaskets is the same part number, so bolt holes should match up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Thanks for that Ralph, there are some parts on ebay I've been looking at. I think fitting a defender 200tdi inlet manifold with the radiator/intercooler unit will give the benefits of reducing the heat stress but not be too intrusive on the stock look of my 19J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 19J crack pistons and heads frequently. It’s a massively overstressed engine and it’ll do it again eventually. But I can see why some prefer them to Tdis - they are smoother and quieter. I’ve had two, both with the cracks you have, and they both emptied their oil through the coolant system - the oil system operates at higher pressure than the coolant. The noise could be the cracked pistons, hotspots moving in the head, a moving valve guide or seat, or a bad cam follower (remove them to check for flat spotting; they can end up like a 50p piece). Whether it’s worth repairing depends on what you find, it if it’s just the gasket and pistons, it might be worth it since you like the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 I've got a small stock of a couple of good 19J heads in my shed. I snap them up if I see them going cheap on ebay with no cracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) Absolutely no reason you can't fit an intercooler with the standard manifold. The only part I see as over stressed on the 19j is thermally. There's an excellent passage in the Allen Allard turbo book which has some data on mechanical and thermal stress in a turbo engine. It makes interesting reading, I'll see if I can find the book in my collection. The salient point was that max cylinder pressures are not that much higher in a turbo setup; the gains are made having average cylinder pressure higher throughout the stroke. There is, however, a significant amount more heat to be managed, which can be mitigated a great deal with an IC in this case. Why they left the compression ratio so high (21:1 - later tdi engines being 19.5:1) is anybody guess, though! This could also be dealt with, but not so easily and cheaply as fitting an intercooler. Edited October 6, 2019 by lo-fi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 10 hours ago, western said: It might the manifold gaskets is the same part number, so bolt holes should match up. Checked my parts book, unfortunately the manifold gaskets are different in number of stud hols & actual part number. TD has 9 stud holes ETC7750 https://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/85775/0/exhaust_manifold_gasket_2_25_2_5_diesel___series_2___3___defender 200Tdi has 11 stud holes ERR1208 https://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/84637/0/manifold_gasket___200tdi_discovery___range_rover_classic___defender 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) I wondered if that is the case. I think the only way would be to modify a 19j inlet manifold by blanking off where the turbo feeds straight in and then cutting a new hole in the end and welding a bit off an old intercooler on to accept a hose. If I get the bits I might do a thread on it. Anyone have a knackered tdi intercooler I can chop up? Edited October 6, 2019 by monkie Additional info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) No chopping needed to IC or engine... Put 90 degree hoses on both the turbo and manifold, pointing forwards. Mount the IC at the front somewhere (find one with convenient port layout for your setup and copy the tdi setup), pipe to and from it with ali tube and a few more rubber elbows. Except for mounting the IC which might require a few brackets making and a few holes drilling, it's literally a bolt up job. EDIT: found the reason the compression is so high. They left it the same as the NA 12j the 19j is based on. Absurd, but typical. Edited October 6, 2019 by lo-fi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 5 hours ago, lo-fi said: No chopping needed to IC or engine... Put 90 degree hoses on both the turbo and manifold, pointing forwards. Mount the IC at the front somewhere (find one with convenient port layout for your setup and copy the tdi setup), pipe to and from it with ali tube and a few more rubber elbows. Except for mounting the IC which might require a few brackets making and a few holes drilling, it's literally a bolt up job. EDIT: found the reason the compression is so high. They left it the same as the NA 12j the 19j is based on. Absurd, but typical. I like the simplicity of this solution but are you sure there is clearance for this? I went and a had a look, I think it would be a very tight squeeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 What about clocking the turbo snail so the output is in a more convenient place ? Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 1 hour ago, monkie said: I like the simplicity of this solution but are you sure there is clearance for this? I went and a had a look, I think it would be a very tight squeeze. I've only got photos to judge by, but silicone elbows are available that will clear. The inlet and outlet will end up running quite close, but that actually makes finding a route for them easier; just joggle apart further forward to meet whichever IC you go with. As Steve says, the turbo compressor housing can be rotated, but this invariably requires holes being redrilled for the wastegate attachment. Grab a couple of silicone hoses and a piece of pipe and have a play; I think you'll find it packages nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, lo-fi said: I've only got photos to judge by, but silicone elbows are available that will clear. The inlet and outlet will end up running quite close, but that actually makes finding a route for them easier; just joggle apart further forward to meet whichever IC you go with. As Steve says, the turbo compressor housing can be rotated, but this invariably requires holes being redrilled for the wastegate attachment. Grab a couple of silicone hoses and a piece of pipe and have a play; I think you'll find it packages nicely. I'm going to try this to see. I don't like the idea of drilling into the turbo housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Just had a second look and I think it might be doable. The inlet manifold isn't straight up to the turbo as I first thought, it's at an angle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenden Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 I have with luck used a standard 300 tdi intercooler/radiator setup. The only thing that needs doing is to cut the, errm passenger side to you guys, top radiator Mount, and og is in to pieces of pipe, one 90 degree elbow and two straight later and you are off!! Very easy, and gives the added bonus og even more ultra low down torque. 😎 /Mads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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