elbekko Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Or the exhaust lobe for #3 is ground down. Seen that before. Especially after mixing up the lifters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 I may or may not have driven to Russia and back with a couple of corroded injector connectors without noticing the drop in power so don't worry about not noticing one dodgy pin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 5, 2020 Author Share Posted August 5, 2020 Well that wasn't the mockery I was expecting/hoping for. It does make me want to hear what it sounds like when it has a full compliment of 8 cylinders. Maybe one day. I promised engine gore, so, enjoy varying levels of horror: The push rods are well polished at both ends, but I don't know what the limits are for this. As you can see, the whole thing is very grimey but removing the rockers, it was also pretty gritty to the touch. You'll note the grey oil, this poured out of the mountings for the rocker and looks emulsified to me. Same story on the other side. Passenger side rockers... The ones for number 5 look gored out in some way, but the rods themselves look identical to the others. Need replacing? Bit of a weirder one, but the picture says it all. The passenger rocker assembly was bone dry compared to the driver's side. Neither feels particularly graunchy or suggesting anything awry except the grittiness in the oil for the pass. one. Both sides look like this on the valve sides. Looks ok? # With the rockers off, I've turned over the engine. It is now very smooth, it'll keep rotating after I stop applying force to it so quite happy there. Lifters appear to be going up and down, etc. In general the camshaft doesn't look too bad, except for our friend at 2nd from top - this is cylinder 3. The one with the problems. I am going to get ridiculed for this, but.... when turning it over, some cylinders sound like they're moving a lot more air than others. One in particular is very... "huffy"... whereas the others are nearly silent. What's that about? Cylinder 7, lifters actually appear to operate fine. However, what is this going on with the rusty end of the camshaft? I am annoyed that everything looks normal here as this was the tappet-ty area that caused me to take a look in the first place and I can't see anything. This doesn't give me the warm glow of knowing it's a problem identified and solved. The casting in the valley is abysmal but I guess that's not unique to mine... One fairly typical lifter. About four looked like this, or somewhere between this and the one above. This one has clearly had an interaction with something harder than a tappet... Remember those marks on the cam for number 3? Oh dear. Interestingly, there's also a reasonable film of oil evident on the intake runner for number 3, I'm guessing from where it's been blowing back upwards. Would the wear on the lifter really be enough to prevent the valve from opening? Knowing little to nothing about engines, I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest whatever is going on with the valve has caused the wear on the cam, not the other way around. It's hard to see how else the rest of them have stayed in reasonable shape and this one is so badly dished. Stupid question again, but looking at the engine from the front of the vehicle, which valve is intake and which is exhaust? The valves and springs appeared to move normally when turning it over, so I can't see the problem from the top end but undeniably there's something wrong. Is it new cam time? Shame, as I was expecting a lot worse but I suppose one dead lobe is a dead cam. The strip down continues tomorrow, engine stand assembled and ready for the convoluted process of craning it out of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Good work. New cam, lifters for sure. Pushrods don't really wear out, they all look fine. The rockers... Hmm, replace just the pitted ones, they are expensive and the aftermarket ones are not good. Casting flash in the valley is very normal..... Rust on the cam is not, are sure it is not paint? The exhaust ports casting can be seen when you look at the top of the cylinder head, and go between the port and the valve, so you can work that out yourself for #3 valves, you'll need to remove the valve and see if there is any binding in the guide, that's about all I can think for that. Either that or maybe a really worn out guide, and the valve stem is rattling around and jamming up in there. good progress so far 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Given the grittiness and the wear on the lifter, I would now strip the engine completely, clean every component and start measuring and inspecting. Camshafts and lifters can be re-ground if necessary. The lifters and rockers from Turner Engineering are good quality. The scratches on the side of the lifters might be a problem if they have worn the block badly; check for sideways movement when you have cleaned them. When you have cleaned the pushrods, roll them on a very flat surface and check for any wobbly movement. As you posted earlier, it might be a case of a new engine from Turner being a viable option, Cheers Charlie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 I'd be taking the sump off and looking for bits of metal, and where said bits of metal have gone to. Hopefully just in the filter, but they could've travelled a whole lot and had an impact on bearings and such. "Easy" fix would be to just slap a new cam and tappets in (why would you bother regrinding when new ones are cheap?), run it in properly, flush the engine a few times, and hope for the best. The rockers will probably clean up just fine. The grittiness is a bit worrying, and might suggest that grime/metal shavings have plugged up some oil ports, that's much more worrying. For proper peace of mind, take the engine out, strip it down fully, have the block and heads professionally cleaned, then slap new bearings and a cam in it, and off you go. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 If it's been stored for a while you can get condensation inside the engine which corrodes parts - I lost a couple of valve springs to small surface pits because of that. The rockers never get a lot of oil, so them appearing dry-ish is no bigge, and I suspect the grit is just carbon deposits - if it's actual grit you've got bigger problems! The lifters do look rather dished and I'd have to assume the cam is at least as badly worn too - I'd vote with Elbekko and whack a cam (stump-puller!) in it plus new lifters and give it a go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 Cheers all. I don't have any specialist tools so don't want to get into piston rings/big end bearings if I can help it, I'll drop the sump later and see if it is full strip/new engine time. A cam replacement and lifters will be perfect if I can keep it to that. Because my build is basically a clone of Keely's, I'll be going for an H180 cam if I'm pulling it out, no point in leaving 20 BHP on the table even if it is £200 more than the standard cam. At least then I can stop feeling bad that I never fitted a 4.6. Is it worth getting all new valve springs while I'm at it? I have read the H180 is at the top end of their limits. I should add that I ran a magnet over the 'grit' and had no reaction, I think it is just loose carbon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 To verify that enough oil is coming up, take the rocker assembly apart (easy, just keep things in order) and look at how bad the wear is. If it doesn't look like it has run dry, all good. Cam depends on what you want the vehicle for. I've got a stump-puller in mine and still have plenty of top-end. 20 BHP up top is worthless if you're just putting about around 2000rpm all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Here's what's in the 109 - standard lifters, rockers, springs, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 Doesn't look like that one is available on their website. Piper have two listed for the 4.0/4.6 - a fast road and rally one. The fast road is what I'd go for and seems similar to the H180. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 One other thing, is there a source for the ARP head bolts/studs? Can't seem to find any that are 100% fit for the RV8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 I got my head stud set from V8Tuner a few weeks ago. Just make sure you use the online torque specs, not the included one as with mine it was an old set (with riskier higher specs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 On that note, unless they have changed, there is just one set for the RV8, which includes the short ones along the exhaust ports. The later V8s don't need these, but are included anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 5 hours ago, ThreePointFive said: Is it worth getting all new valve springs while I'm at it? I have read the H180 is at the top end of their limits. No, stock springs will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 RV8s are very forgiving, I've been running a £70 scrapper SD1 carb engine in mine since 1984, all I've changed was the heads as it was parked up for 10 years and a valve stuck (new heads are 3.9 £50 a pair from here as one has small cracks) and Megajolt as the dizzy was too worn to be reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Bowie69 said: On that note, unless they have changed, there is just one set for the RV8, which includes the short ones along the exhaust ports. The later V8s don't need these, but are included anyway. Mine only had 10 studs in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 53 minutes ago, elbekko said: Mine only had 10 studs in it. Aha, must have updated them then, that's good, was an expensive set of unused studs otherwise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 19 hours ago, ThreePointFive said: Doesn't look like that one is available on their website. Piper have two listed for the 4.0/4.6 - a fast road and rally one. The fast road is what I'd go for and seems similar to the H180. I just phoned them up because I didn't want fast road or rally and that's what the guy sold me, I don't think they list all their stock. I just asked for all the low torque without changing any other parts, and it seems to work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 Four head bolts rounded off, one 17mm socket cracked. Job is f**ked before it even began, I have no way to get these bolts out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 Coincidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 Yep, and I thought mine would be different for some reason. Had a whole weekend planned and now I'm going to have to try every technique for removing bolts that doesn't involve heat (unless a heat gun counts....) or welding. You know, the ones that never work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeAK Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 ThreePointFive I feel your pain, just had the same although only one bolt. FridgeFreezer has link to my thread on that with how I got it out. I only used a die grinder because I couldn't get a large enough drill in. If you have access the bolts were actually quite easy to drill so just drill down the centre of the bolt head to the depth of the head with the correct size of drill. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 I am really not looking forward to trying to drill them out, being large bolts and very hard. I feel for so many to go wrong, it must be something I'm doing wrong with technique but it's undoing a bolt, how can I get that wrong?! Still, by the fourth I'll probably be really good at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 There actually is technique to undoing a bolt, especially one that you think might stick and/or snap. Hard to describe, but if you've got a breaker bar and a good quality (tight-fitting) socket on it, a few jolts or bounces of the bar (without putting huge force on it) can crack it free. If it's not coming, swinging on it with all your might is usually just a way to break it, round it, or send yourself flying when the socket slips off. Badly fitting / cheap sockets are a surefire way of rounding a bolt off. For something high-torque you want decent 6-point (not 12-point) sockets to give you the best chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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