Teraffima suspension on defender

[western]

For your usage, new standard rate springs & new standard dampers would be fine,

Years ago I changed to OME springs & dampers on my 110 but only because its a County with the softer rear springs & the self level strut didn't work, the reason for my change was to regain the axle to chassis clearance/travel as I carry upto 450kg of recovery kit when on motorsport events.

[Mixalis]

@Snagger i understand what are you saying but i want to put big tires like 33 or 35 so i have to put lift

 

[Bowie69]

33s go on without a lift 

[Snagger]

2 hours ago, Mixalis said:

@Snagger i understand what are you saying but i want to put big tires like 33 or 35 so i have to put lift

 

Your choice, but it’ll make the car drive far worse, cost more money and put a lot of stress on the axles.  If you need them, then fair enough, but for road and lane driving, you don’t.  Are the aesthetics of big tyres really worth all the negatives?

[Chicken Drumstick]

51 minutes ago, Snagger said:

Are the aesthetics of big tyres really worth all the negatives?

Yes I'd say they are to a greater extent. At least with 33's, they are not so big to cause any real negatives, apart from somewhat more sluggish acceleration and poorer braking. But neither are extremes.

[landroversforever]

33” fit nicely on a standard heigh car if you want a reasonable size tyre without going mad. If you’re doing a lot of road work you’re wasting your time going any bigger. 

[Snagger]

14 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Yes I'd say they are to a greater extent. At least with 33's, they are not so big to cause any real negatives, apart from somewhat more sluggish acceleration and poorer braking. But neither are extremes.

And steering lock?  Going to need offset rims to fix that, which means heavier steering, more pull from uneven roads, tyres or brakes, and more mechanical wear.

[Chicken Drumstick]

3 hours ago, Snagger said:

And steering lock?  Going to need offset rims to fix that, which means heavier steering, more pull from uneven roads, tyres or brakes, and more mechanical wear.

That's all super minor. Remember Land Rover fitted 9.00 x 16's to a 109 with narrower axles and leaf springs. A 90/110 with 33's on or even a 255/85R16 which is actually going to be taller than most 33's are, will be perfectly acceptable for most people. Slightly wider offset rims will be needed, but nothing crazy.

[Snagger]

The leaf springs are under the chassis, unlike radius arms, negating the effect of the shorter axles.  That’s why my 109 can turn with 2/3 the circle of a 90 after fitting coiler axles.

[Chicken Drumstick]

I'd need to see proof that your 109 out turns a 90, let alone 2/3rds the turning circle. I find that incomprehensible. Sorry not doubting you... well actually I am.

[Snagger]

4 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

I'd need to see proof that your 109 out turns a 90, let alone 2/3rds the turning circle. I find that incomprehensible. Sorry not doubting you... well actually I am.

Why? A Discovery axle can have the stop locks wound far further in with the leaf sprung suspension as there are no radius arms for the inboard edges of the tyres to hit.  Add the P38 steering with greater lock and the limit is set by the steering damper movement.  I had a 2009 90 at the same time, on which I adjusted the stop locks in to maximise lock, and the 109 had a far smaller turning circle.

[Chicken Drumstick]

54 minutes ago, Snagger said:

Why? A Discovery axle can have the stop locks wound far further in with the leaf sprung suspension as there are no radius arms for the inboard edges of the tyres to hit.  Add the P38 steering with greater lock and the limit is set by the steering damper movement.  I had a 2009 90 at the same time, on which I adjusted the stop locks in to maximise lock, and the 109 had a far smaller turning circle.

Not trying to not believe you. I know you know your stuff and are very knowledgable.

Only I do a lot of trialling, I know how small the turning circle can be on a 90, I just really struggle to see a 109 having one only 2/3rds of the size. Unless you can get the front wheels with so much lock the the rears just pivot in place. But if that was the case, I'm sure you'd see more 109's trialling. And I'm not sure I've seen one for 25 years. I've seen lots of 88's with coiler front axles and leaf springs, they do turn well, but still not as good as an 86 coiler. And I wouldn't say significantly different to a well setup 90.

My current 88 coiler allows full lock as far as the steering box allows (stops are removed for trialling) and doesn't rub on the radius arms with 235's. But amazingly the turning circle is only slightly smaller than that of an equally well setup 90.

 

Maybe you mean lock like this though

 

[Snagger]

“Only I do a lot of trialling, I know how small the turning circle can be on a 90, I just really struggle to see a 109 having one only 2/3rds of the size. Unless you can get the front wheels with so much lock the the rears just pivot in place. But if that was the case, I'm sure you'd see more 109's trialling. And I'm not sure I've seen one for 25 years. I've seen lots of 88's with coiler front axles and leaf springs, they do turn well, but still not as good as an 86 coiler. And I wouldn't say significantly different to a well setup 90.“

There is something wrong with their setup, then.  The extra lock achievable with the same axle and wheels with the radius arms out of the way is enormous and massively surpasses the effects of wheel base.  I never measured the turning circles, but having carefully set both the 90 and 109 to have about 3/4” clearance between tyre shoulder and nearest suspension parts on full lock, both using standard alloys and 235/85s, the 109 easily out turns the 90, doing in a single “u” many turns that the 90 needed a three point turn.  Perhaps it was 3/4 the turning circle rather than 2/3, but it was markedly tighter.

Having your 88 as a coiler will have given you better articulation, but you’d have got a far nimbler trialled if you had leaf springs and those axles.  I don’t know what limits are set by the PAS boxes - my lock probably increased with the P38 unit, as the throw on the drag link is now limited by the damper.  So, if you need more agility, you might want to consider returning your front axle to leafs and fitting P38 steering.