Mike C Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Hello White90, Thanks for the response. Have had a look at the FIA approved batt cut off that Peter Lloyd rallying is selling, in theory it looks like the kind of switch I need. Did you connect everything to the battery through the cutoff or do you have seperate switches for each winch? If everything goes through the cutoff do you know what the switches rating is? I want to make sure the switch is beefy enough to handle a 450amp+ load that an 8274 can create. thanks Mike C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Mike the FIA engine cut out switch won't (well not for long) take winching currents. See my reply to Trev/LR90 here... http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=9207&st=40 The winch power cut of switch that I (and many others) use is this one.... Rated at 250A but seems to cope with more, I have 5.6hp motor. Another one I've seen used is this type... Also rated to 250A. Both available from VWP and many other places I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Hydro Bikes are carp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Hello Mark90, Some years back I used the Durite switch with the big key to isloate a winch, bought it from VWP, its rated at 250amps at 24V which equates to 500amps at 12V. Looking at VWP the second switch could probaly be operated remotely. How have you wired yours in, how do you stop/isloate the alternator? tah Mike C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 How have you wired yours in, how do you stop/isloate the alternator? Not sure which switch you are asking how I wired in, guessing you mean FIA switch, but I'll do both. The winch power feed isolator switch (top pic above) is simply cuts the feed from battery to winch solenoid and is situated on the front of the seat box (battery is rear tub). The FIA battery/engine cut out switch is fitted to the bulkhead behind the passenger seat, I can reach it from my seat, so no remote cable pull on either switch. A wiring diagram is usually supplied with these switches but is pretty simple really. The two main connections on the switch are for the battery feed to the main vehicle electrics (usually to starter motor), this isolates the battery. Then to cut the engine dead (as alternator is still supplying power) there is a second set of smaller connection on the switch that you connect in to either the coil live feed (petrol) or fuel solenoid (diesel). Finally there is one more connection on the switch that you connect to earth through a supplied resistor. When the switch is on and the other two pairs of connectors are closed this one is not connected to anything, when you switch off and the two pairs of connections open cutting the engine this earthed connection is connected to the engine side of the main battery feed grounding it, and dumping any remaining voltage. All these connections opperate simultaneously when the switch is activated. So in summary it isolates the battery, cuts the engine, grounds the live side of the vehicle electrics, which means your alternator doesn't get fried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 James, if you are following AWDC regs does this mean that tyre size regulatons will be more relaxed? if not, for those people with larger than 36", will you allow them to take part in a "non-compete" sense? Ta Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 its rated at 250amps at 24V which equates to 500amps at 12V. Sorry, it doesn't work like that. If a switch is rated at 250A at 24V, it's still rated at 250A at 12V. The laws of Power don't apply, as the switch has no (negligable) resistance, and thus uses no power. With a switch or similar with a rating like 250A at 24V, the current rating is with respect to the size of the conductors,contacts etc. the voltage rating is with respect to the insulation (air) between the contacts when they're open, and between seperate conductors. Regards Luke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8CAMEL Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/V...l/battisol.html i use the one on the top which has lasted over 4 years paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 i have just finished digesting the tech regs and the clubman and winchman supplementary challenge regs, i honestly dont think that there is anything in there that will affect competitors for my events, Neither does Neil from an observation point - see his comments above. Jim - as prev mentioned i will adding some additional restirctions to my own challenge event for the supplementarys which will include current MOT, recovery gear, first aid kit and tyre limit size. this is to reduce the damage cuased to the land and therefore the subsequent time it needs to recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 on a second note if theres a VWP order going in for cutoff switches it may be beneficail to club together and order together, thoughts? (sort ofvolu to do it!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Luke, Thanks for putting me straight on the switch 12v/24v switch rating. All, Looking at the posts and reading the regs I see you can use multiple switches, which simplifies things greatly. Currently my winches are connected to the battery via a Warn solinoid, the solinoid controlled by a switch in the dash, the switch only being powered if ignition is on. Question is does this comply with AWDC rules as its not mechanical? This method has the advantage that a single kill switch would stop the engine and the winches - this is what I'd expect a kill switch to do! As my alternator can output 200amps, I dont think the FIA switch will do the job, so still looking. Mike C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Mike I recommend individual cut offs for each winch and the battery. otherwise a flt in one of the circuits will affect the others if your rear winch packs up or needs isolating you can carry on for the day by leaving it turned off at the isolator, not affecting the front. the wiring is pretty straight forward to have 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Luke,Thanks for putting me straight on the switch 12v/24v switch rating. All, Looking at the posts and reading the regs I see you can use multiple switches, which simplifies things greatly. Currently my winches are connected to the battery via a Warn solinoid, the solinoid controlled by a switch in the dash, the switch only being powered if ignition is on. Question is does this comply with AWDC rules as its not mechanical? This method has the advantage that a single kill switch would stop the engine and the winches - this is what I'd expect a kill switch to do! As my alternator can output 200amps, I dont think the FIA switch will do the job, so still looking. Mike C Mike, I've got a simerlar setup and will probably stay that way as it works, you can kill the winches quickly if something goes wrong as they're next to the in cab controls and you can clearly see if the winches are engaged. I then have a red key type battery isolator that cuts everything in the event of a major problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 http://www.zackfords.co.uk/product.asp?P_I...numLanguageID=1 Current rating 550A continuous Peak Current 2500A for 10 Seconds Voltage Rating 48Vdc Mounting Hole 24mm dia Handle Material Red Plastic Studs M10 £60 ...... I use a huuuggeee 4 pole jobby, isolation switch from a Bedford MK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 On the subject of marking the cables with yellow tape/cable ties, I have no problem with this but there is no point on my veh. I have fitted aftermarket bucket seats with bolt in subframes. So unless the marshal is prepared to get the wife out the seat(good luck to you) unbolt the seat and then cut the cable it matters not a jot if the cable is marked at all. Don't want to cause problems but I would imagine there atre a few people on here with the same problem that I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 I just extended the - Ve cable to outside the battery box, to the chassis under the rear wheel arch and marked it yellow woth a marker saying earth -------> on the body....not much use when covered in mud but passed scrutineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Currently my winches are connected to the battery via a Warn solinoid, the solinoid controlled by a switch in the dash, the switch only being powered if ignition is on. Question is does this comply with AWDC rules as its not mechanical? My interpretation of the AWDC regs is that this doesn't comply. My guess was the requirement for a mechanical isolator was in the event of a fault and any solenoid contacts remaining closed the power to the winch could be physically switched off. My winch will not work without both the ignition live and the switch on the dash on, but I still fitted a mechanical isolator switch to make sure I had no issues with AWDC scrutineering. However I need not have bothered as it seems vehicles where allowed to enter without mechanical cut of switches for winches. It would be nice if Neil could give us his 'official' interpretation of the regs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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