Front Wings Won't Fit

[ThreePointFive]

I am trying to put the bodywork on the front end of the 90 but nothing seems to want to fit. I know we make jokes about the panel gaps on Defenders but this really is stupid.

Installing the wing as one piece (inner, outer and front panel/wingtop) means the whole thing is twisting when bolted to the chassis. Installing the inner wings first and then the rest second means the holes in the top of the inner wings don't line up with the wings themselves, but would otherwise fit fine. I can't have the wings align to both the chassis and themselves at the same time.

I also have problems with the bulkhead end on the passenger side only. At the top, the horizontal surface of the wing top is jammed up against the bulkhead in compression but there's a gap at the bottom. Trying to tighten the bolts in the A pillar just pulls out the slots the bolts fit into rather than pulling everything tight.  I have already put a ripple in the outer wing skin that was brand new, I'm just going to be ruining it if I try any harder to make these fit. Pic below but it doesn't really show it well as I have to hold the panel and take a photo - it's tight to the bulkhead at the top but gapped at the bottom.

I can't adjust the bulkhead, it's loosely bolted in but doesn't move enough to make any difference. Also, the bulkhead is properly parallel to the tub, so I will have problems fitting the doors if I now move it to compensate for the wings.

Are there any tricks to this I can be missing? It sounds simple but I have tried everything.

[Mo Murphy]

Sam,

Have you tried putting round shims between the wing and the chassis mounts to stop it twisting ?

Regarding the nearside bulkhead / wing fit, can you not lower the front of the wing ?

Mo

[Snagger]

Have you installed the rear tub yet?  The position and alignment of the bulkhead is set from the tub.  Once the door bottom space is set with the washers on the bottom bolt, the door pillar has to be set parallel to the B pillar, and this can involve using ratchet straps to pull it parallel if anything is distorted.  Once the braces between bulkhead and chassis are in place, it should stay where you put it.  On a Series vehicle, that is done by the steering column supports bolted to the front of the foot wells.  I think on Defenders, it may be done by the steel inner arches.  Only once that’s a set can you start with the front wings.

Setting up the bulkhead is a bit of a juggle - you can set the bottom spacing for the door as soon as the back of the tub is bolted on, but you can’t set the recline of the bulkhead to parallel the B-pillars until the front of the tub has been set, and to do that, you have to align the crease of the tub sides (barrel curve to flat face below the cappings) to line up with the same crease in the bulkhead (a taught string line works best).  Only once the front of the tub is set do you have the datum for the bulkhead.  It sounds more of juggling act than it really is.

[pete3000]

I'm just rebuilding mine at the mo after a rebuild/chassis swap. I put the tub on first and then loosely bolted the seatbox up to aling the m6 nuts/bolts. Then moving to the bulkhead, the old chassis had 3x m10 washers inbetween the chassis and the bulkhead. I found when i tried the method below i had to take two of these out on each side.

I dropped (screwed) the doors on and aimed for a 8mm gap (m8 bolt) first at the front top and bottom then round the rear of the door to line the bulkhead to the tub. I had to pull the bulkhead backwards in line with ratchet straps around 10-15mm to get the doors to drop level with the base of the tub at the rear. I made sure the screen angle matched the front of door gap.

Then i was able to snug the bolts up on the bulkhead and footwell plates which needed 2 shims in each. Then i tightened the sill to the bulkhead and finally the seatbox end.

I put the wings on last and only had to pull the front up by 5mm by hand due to the sag in the panel.

As Snagger says the only fixed datum is the rear of the tub on the rear crossmember, the only other constant is the width of your doors for panel gap.

[ThreePointFive]

Thanks for the responses. So the consensus is not to fit the wings until after the doors? In that case, I might as well do the roof and screen first too as surely they'll be even more reliant on the bulkhead being right.

The tub is in and was a fight on its own due to the chassis being asymetrical, that's why I wanted to preserve the good tub-bulkhead alignment I have by pure chance. I'l have to wait for the doors to come back from the paint shop and then do them, it would just be nice to crack on with the bodywork I have, especially as there's all the wiring to go through the wings that I can get on with now.

[western]

You can fit the inner wings on their own, the very front lower bolt at the front end can be difficult to get tools on to tighten, there are IIRC just 3 bolts along the top edge to outer wing top/skin.

[ThreePointFive]

Yeah I have had the inners fitted for a while to hold things needed to run the engine. When I try to fit the outer/top with the inners fixed on the chassis none of those top 4 bolt holes line up. I just can't win!

[pete3000]

Yes that's roughly what i've done although i don't have a roof at the moment only a soft top. Leave the bumper and the grill panel off till last also then you stand a chance at being able to get to the fiddly bolts at the front of the wings.

A smidge of waxoyl on the stainless bolts i've been using on the non critical parts has stopped them snagging on the nuts, which gives you a second or third chance at swapping bits round or adjusting.

Pete

[Sigi_H]

Have a look at Britannica Restorations on Youtube. This guy shows very good, how to set up a body with the right gaps.

 

 

[Snagger]

23 hours ago, ThreePointFive said:

Thanks for the responses. So the consensus is not to fit the wings until after the doors? In that case, I might as well do the roof and screen first too as surely they'll be even more reliant on the bulkhead being right.

The tub is in and was a fight on its own due to the chassis being asymetrical, that's why I wanted to preserve the good tub-bulkhead alignment I have by pure chance. I'l have to wait for the doors to come back from the paint shop and then do them, it would just be nice to crack on with the bodywork I have, especially as there's all the wiring to go through the wings that I can get on with now.

You don’t need the doors on, just the tub and bulkhead set and secured.

[pete3000]

Noticed from your first pic, it looks like you have rock sliders fitted, just wondering if it would give more leeway to pull the bulkhead backwards/forward without them if they sit tight against the bottom of the bulkhead?

Snagger, i used my doors as a cheap set square, logic being if the front of the door to bulkhead gap is equal/parallel at top and bottom hinge (and the waistline is at the correct level then the rear of the door base should be in line with the base of the tub and the waistline of the tub should be at correct level. i.e aiming for parallel ish gaps around 8mm. Hence why i found myself taking two of the outrigger to bulkhead washers out each side. That's just the way i did it.

[Snagger]

That works.  I just set the gap at the bottom to the correct measurement, and once the tub was fixed, set the same measurement at the top.  594mm rings a bell, but that may well be incorrect and would definitely need checking.