Microsquirt+E’ing a 4.6

[Pistonsquirter]

Hello, long time stalker here,

before I press the button on this MS purchase I thought it best to ask the hive mind if my plan is sound if possible? , in a nutshell;

• 4.6 bog standard 80k miles gems, probably wants a new cam & followers & timing gear
• microsquirt with 8 foot tails, built for edis8 & terminate into all gems sensors
• Find an EDIS8 and make it drive factory gems coils, wasted spark
• batch fire the gems coils
• try and put the gems flexplate 36-1 reluctor ring onto a manual flywheel & use the factory VR
• fail at the above and buy a front pulley 36-1 kit and put that on
• build & install all fuel pump circuits & main supplies relay circuits etc

my only downside to this is that I probably cannot steal somebody’s developed MS2 map as I’m guessing Microsquirt isn’t ‘that identical’ to the MS2 that most people here use, even though it’s ms2 based, at least I can copy the values for, the tables over so not that scared by it.

I do believe edis8 will drive the gems coils, but it is in the maybe pile until I test it, for me it would be nice to reuse gems coils due to packaging reasons, I won’t be going in mud (heathen!!!)

I intend to start a pic heavy build thread soon, I’m rebuilding an period styled 80” coiler, half the front panels are stripped for paint and the 4.6 arrived last week, so squirt and spark is my last big ticket item left to buy, hence my nooby sounding questions!!
 

regards

harry

 

[landroversforever]

Sounds like a cool build. As you're fairly fresh to the forum, the special builds section might be better than the members vehicles section which might not be visible yet. 

 

[elbekko]

You could try to find a GEMS manual flywheel, that has a 36-1 timing ring built in.

[Pistonsquirter]

Thanks both, fair shout on the thread location, but GEMS manual flywheels are ludicrous money, I’ve removed the flexplate so have the reluctor spare but feel like I’ll just fit a trigger wheels rv8 front pulley kit, 

I have also semi decided to go twin SU manifold & megajolt for ‘project build rev.1’ to keep the build in check… I can always sell the MJ to my turbo minis mates as they seem to like blow through carb builds for some reason…. (so do i) 

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

 

 

Interesting

I was going to say Buy a Trigger wheel and VR sensor bracket, save a **** load of time and effort and have an easier to access items, Block up the old hole where the factory sensor is.

Also you can use ANY manual flywheel, RR Disco 90 V8, all the same, but NOT SDi rover

But go EFI now vs half step, I used to do spark only MS Kits, I sold a lot, and every single customer then went to EFI - save the time and hassle go full conversion.

Aviod 3.5 Flapper system,

hotwire from late 3.5s (Rare) all 3.9s 4.0s 4.0s, 4.2 V belts or serps - all the same, and even can go Thor if you go up on Fuel pressure to 52PSI as injectors different,

then I can give you a MS1 or MS2 map for any of the above FOC !

 

Nige

[FridgeFreezer]

MS1 or MS2 will work ignition-only, no need to use a microsquirt as an "intermediate" stage and as Nige says it's easier to then add fuel control now or later as everything else is already wired up.

EDIS should drive GEMS coils but may not be a good match, although EDIS is pretty robust.

Ref flexplates etc. it's worth noting that EDIS only has so much leeway for the alignment of the -1 tooth relative to TDC so if GEMS does not agree with what Ford did things could get wacky - you can trim a small amount out in the MS settings but EDIS will run out of advance if you go too far, beyond that you could re-shuffle the coil wiring order but it could become a headache...

The more modern way is MS1 or MS2 driving VAG coil packs which have the EDIS-style ignitor circuit built in, that way MS reads the VR sensor directly and you get full 360deg adjustment of the trigger alignment.

Fuel/ignition maps are transportable between all the ECU's you just need to be aware of trim/offset factors* that can skew them if you don't make a note - and MS1 uses 8x8 or 12x12 tables where MS2 uses 16x16 (if memory serves) so some interpolation / filling in the blanks becomes necessary (but Tunerstudio is pretty good at doing this, or MS Excel can do it, it's only numbers in a spreadsheet!).

 

*= For example, trigger wheel / VR sensor offset/trim, REQ_FUEL value in basic setup both offset or scale the map by a given amount.

[hario']

Hello again, been a while! (House renovation taking precedence due to misses moaning when I’m not renovating)

thanks nice for the wheel & bracket - I emailed the other day (and they arrive the following day!) great service.

im currently building it with gems coils and EDIS MJ & twin SU’s - MJ is a loan and I had the manifold so there. I have kept the gems manifold for MS later - I have a deadline of LM2024 in July so cannot side track with MS just yet, it’s still just a rolling chassis!!

Anyway most engine accessories replaced sensor fixed, just need to find timing and fit the big bolt.

Sorry I am usually a forum monkey for this sort of thing just no time for typing much these days. 
this is an 80” hybrid build (LT77 & coiler) so nothing fits anything…, I am on my third gearbox mounts option now (total scratch build mounts). 
I hope to send more photos and give context soon. LM is a 600 mile round trip for me so I have to build for reliability ish, currently looking for an EDIS8 plug repin kit as I don’t want soldered or crimped cable joints anywhere if I can help it, some wiring over the next week or so and it can be test cranked on EDIS only then I’ll be happy.

 

ill make a separate dedicated thread if it’s easier, some people have a to do list in their thread and cross them off as they go, I kinda like that idea,

beers!

HH

[Bowie69]

7 hours ago, hario' said:

I don’t want soldered or crimped cable joints anywhere if I can help it

Good luck with the installation! 

My only comment really is that every single plug will have crimped joints in it, so I would not worry too much if you can't get the re-pin kit, especially as you are going MS later and will likely need to do it again anyway... If only just for neatness or realising that there are better ways to do things! 

[FridgeFreezer]

12 hours ago, hario' said:

I have a deadline of LM2024 in July

Ooooh we're booked too - look for the 127 Ambulance on the Porsche curves!

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

On 12/8/2023 at 11:50 PM, hario' said:

Hello again, been a while! (House renovation taking precedence due to misses moaning when I’m not renovating)

thanks nice for the wheel & bracket - I emailed the other day (and they arrive the following day!) great service.

im currently building it with gems coils and EDIS MJ & twin SU’s - MJ is a loan and I had the manifold so there. I have kept the gems manifold for MS later - I have a deadline of LM2024 in July so cannot side track with MS just yet, it’s still just a rolling chassis!!

Anyway most engine accessories replaced sensor fixed, just need to find timing and fit the big bolt.

Sorry I am usually a forum monkey for this sort of thing just no time for typing much these days. 
this is an 80” hybrid build (LT77 & coiler) so nothing fits anything…, I am on my third gearbox mounts option now (total scratch build mounts). 
I hope to send more photos and give context soon. LM is a 600 mile round trip for me so I have to build for reliability ish, currently looking for an EDIS8 plug repin kit as I don’t want soldered or crimped cable joints anywhere if I can help it, some wiring over the next week or so and it can be test cranked on EDIS only then I’ll be happy.

 

ill make a separate dedicated thread if it’s easier, some people have a to do list in their thread and cross them off as they go, I kinda like that idea,

beers!

HH

I am so glad that this engine was one the leter ones I did all the brackets for - that VR sensor bracket was lots of head scratching and prototypes before I was happy talk about awkward !! You are getting there then

[Bowie69]

26 minutes ago, Hybrid_From_Hell said:

I am so glad that this engine was one the leter ones I did all the brackets for - that VR sensor bracket was lots of head scratching and prototypes before I was happy talk about awkward !! You are getting there then

Yep. a pain, I've never been 100% happy with my set up, it's a lot more vulnerable than your pictured one.

[hario']

Hello everyone, thanks for your comments, appreciated, I do read and digest and lurk in the backgrounds, I'm just always short of access to a laptop where I can upload things easily and quickly these days (hmmm didn't think do it from my phone).

Should have started a new thread as I've fitted twin SUs for now to get me rolling and current topic is misleading 

Been working away hard between hose renovation and garage workshop build, I am having issues with piping up the brakes at the mo, hope someone can offer some insight/confirmation of my assessment;

I have RRC axles and an unknown MC on this 80” hybrid,

calipers are confirmed all M10 thread, I was going to convert m10 to 3/8 but then thought I’ll need a disc brakes MC to match so may as well keep it all metric.

Got myself a reel of 3/16 cupro, just need to know what fittings I need for the rear axle tee, M10 din/iso bubble? And same for the (yet to be purchased) MC? Be nice to keep the MC as it’s on a custom turret to clear the bonnet but the innards look properly borked. As you can see below photos.

Also as it’s SWB I’m guessing I'll need the rear line PRV as fitted to 90’s (but not fitted to the heavier 110) would this also be metric M10 DIN/ISO bubble flare? (See schematics of the two chassis layouts with PRV)

Sorry for the rant I almost clicked buy on a basket of fittings but realized they’re concave and won’t work with the (also concave) MC, rear axle tee, tee for brake pressure switch I wana fit, etc (however the caliper flexes I intend to buy (def/D1) have M10 male convex at the chassis side so will need some kind of female concave SAE double flare nut?) - this means I need to buy both types of flaring tool I guess. Help appreciated and photos of progress!! 

 

I'll add photos seperately 

 

Beers!

HH

[hario']