Towing Newbie

[Pyrover]

At the end of the month I've got to collect a car (a non-runner) from Yeovil and basically I know begger all about towing, having never done any before. I know there are lots of you who tow regularly so any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.

If I remember correctly a 110 is rated to tow 750kg unbraked and 3500kg if using over-run brakes, is this correct?

Is this limit just LR's recomendation or a legal requirement?

If not a legal requirement what is the maximum safe weight to tow before over-run brakes are a must?

I seem to remember reading somewhere that any 4X4 over 3.5 tonnes is required to have a tacho (no.. NOT the mexican food!), is this also correct or does this only apply commecially?

I'll be using either a 110 2.5NA (very, very, unlikely ), a 200Tdi 110 (possible), or more likely a 300Tdi Disco to pick up the car, none of which has over-run brakes. The car is a Jensen-Healey and weighs in at around 1200kg, I've no idea how heavy the trailer will be as I'm still looking into the options, but would have thought the total would be around 1500kg, although this may go up if we decide to buy the other bits the bloke's punting off.

One other thing is insurance related; any idea whether most insurance policies cover towing or will I need to get this added to my policy (yes...I know my insurance company can tell me ), both the 110's are on commecial insurance and the Disco on standard private insurance.

M@

[Les Brock]

Think this depends more on when you passed your driving test now as to what you're allowed to tow weight wise...don't it ?

Grown up be along in a min to confirm

[Pyrover]

Think this depends more on when you passed your driving test now as to what you're allowed to tow weight wise...don't it ?

Grown up be along in a min to confirm

It's ok I'm a big boy, I'm on the old style licence - up to 7.5 tonne, etc. B)

[Les Brock]

Fill your flammin' profile in then you old duffer....

[Pyrover]

Fill your flammin' profile in then you old duffer....

Ha Ha. International man of mystery

[Corrode Finger]

From what i know from towing horse trailers........

The 750kg is the max unbraked gross trailer weight, ie the little halfords camping, going to the tip type trailers.

Trailers that have a gross upto 3500kg are the ones with brakes, like plant and car transport trailers.

The max weight that you are legally allowed to tow in the uk is 3500kg, which is why the LR's are rated as such, i believe that in other countries they are rated at 4000kg.

If you are using a proper car transport trailer/ plant trailer it will have the correct brakes.

Collecting the Jensen on the trailer, ought not to be an issue, just make sure that it and anything else on the trailer is properly secured.

Regarding the insurance, best check with the broker, but most insurers will cover towing a trailer, its just a case of reading the policy document, thats the case on private(well mine anyhow), commercial, dont know.

The tacho i believe is for commercial towing.

Hope that helps

[FridgeFreezer]

If the trailer's in good nick then you'll be fine. If it's home-made and held together with string be very very careful. Check the brakes work (with it unladen, anchor on - you should feel the trailer push the car a bit and then pull it back as the brakes come on, often with a bit of a "bang" as the brakes bite). Check the tyres & pressures (trailer and your car) on the towing vehicle you may want to up the rear tyre pressures to cope with the weight, the manual will make mention of the correct pressures to use.

[Mark90]

Mostly covered above.

Any trailer with a gross weight over 750kg should have over run brakes. Note the over run brakes are a feature of the trailer and will work whatever vehicle you tow with.

Legal limit for over run brakes is 3500kg or max limit of tow vehicle whichever is lower, but LR's are rated to 3500kg on over run brakes to 3500kg it is.

Tacho only required for commecial use.

Either of the 110's or the disco will tow the weight fine, although teh 2.5nad will be a bit slow compared to the tdi's. Not that you want to be racing about with a trailer on but it's nice to hold a sensible speed on hills.

Make sure everything is well strapped on - I had a snake with a 110 on a trailer behind my old 90, trailer 45° one way down the road and 90 45° the other way, then flip round and repeat. This was quite voilent and bent the tow bar on the 90 but the 110 barely moved on the trailer, one end stayed put and the other slid sideways about 2". If it hadn't been well strapped on I would have lost the load, so make sure it's well strapped.

The other moral of this story is make sure the trailer is correctly loaded, that's why I had the snake in the first place, trailer was too light up front. I now make sure I have a good nose weight of about 150kg (I think that's the limit for LR's). This is especially important with twin wheel trailers, like most car transport trailers are.

I'm not saying all this to scare you or put you off, just to say be careful as towing heavy loads can go wrong especially if in experinced, I was very lucky. But if loaded and secured properly and driven sensibly there is no reason for anything to go wrong. Also towing a 1200kg car on a trailer behind a 110/disco really isn't as much of an issue as having over 2000kg of LR on a heavy duty trailer weighing over 500kg behind you. Just take it steady

[Matt Neale]

Have a look Trailer and Towing Advisory Service for nore info on the legal aspects.

Best advice I can offer is that you double check EVERYTHING after loading. The vehicle should be loaded slightly foward of the centre of the trailer with the engine twd the drawbar to make sure that the noseweight is high enough. Lash it down securely and check the straps after a few miles on road.

You should also check the trailer tyre pressures are correct, that you have a spare, and that the wheelnuts are all on and tight.

Check all connections, make sure all lights are working and the right number plateon the trailer to match the towing vehicle.

Keep your speed right down and plan well ahead at hazards - roundabouts/junctions etc - if you've not done any towing before you don't want to have to learn to reverse in the road with an unfamiliar trailer

Hope this helps,

Matt

[Pyrover]

Cheers guys.

Didn't realise that the over-run brakes were a completely seperate braking system, I assumed that they were hydraulically conected to the towing vehicle and that you needed special plumbing to use the trailer (D'oh!).

Found a nice animation of how they work at the site below for all those like dumb-ass here who didn't know.

http://www.kfz-tech.de/Engl/AuflBremse.htm

One question though, how do you know that you've got 150kg of nose weight and don't have too much/little?

M@

[Guest diesel_jim]

Cheers guys.

One question though, how do you know that you've got 150kg of nose weight and don't have too much/little?

M@

If you've got time, go to a builders merchant and buy/borrow 3 big bags of cement (the 55kg ones) or 8 of the little wussy 20kg purses of cement. stick them in the back of your vee-hickle, and see how much the suspension drops. measure it.

then when you get the trailer on, you can roll the jensen forward/back until the same suspesnion height is reached.

[western]

Preferable to have the towing vehicle & trailer/load level when ready to move, that way the complete rig will be much more stable.

[Mark90]

I assumed that they were hydraulically conected to the towing vehicle and that you needed special plumbing to use the trailer

That's coupled brakes, as required for over 3500kg.

One question though, how do you know that you've got 150kg of nose weight and don't have too much/little?

Experience. You can get little nose weight scales, but to be honest I tend to look at the trailer as it's being loaded (if I'm driving I like someone else to drive the car on to the trailer while I watch, unless it's someone I know and who's judgement I trust, the exception is a trailer and load I'm familier with and know just where to put it, a mark on the trailer helps) and look for a couple of inches drop in the rear of the tow car and also look at the trailer tyres you can usually tell once the weight has passed the centre and the trailer is nose heavy. It doesn't have to be exact, if the trailer is slightly nose heavy, should be obvious using above observations, and the tow car isn't dragging it's arse along the ground you should be about right, remember it's only about 10% or less of the towed weight.

[simonb]

Cheers guys.

Didn't realise that the over-run brakes were a completely seperate braking system, I assumed that they were hydraulically conected to the towing vehicle and that you needed special plumbing to use the trailer (D'oh!).

Found a nice animation of how they work at the site below for all those like dumb-ass here who didn't know.

http://www.kfz-tech.de/Engl/AuflBremse.htm

One question though, how do you know that you've got 150kg of nose weight and don't have too much/little?

M@

Some people use old bathroom scales...me thinks a heavy duty set under the jockey wheel before they hitch up. Seriously though if you use a twin axle car transporter they are typically only £35 a day to hire (yellow pages), and they will be guaranteed fit for purpose. They either have pull out ramps or a hydraulic pump to make them "kneel" at the rear. They will also have a winch to hoist the car on board. If you have the vehicle loaded onto the trailler correctely the nose weight will be correct. You will need to set your tow hitch to the lowest possible setting, the trailler hitch should ideally be horizontal or slightly above, never below horizontal.

Tip for easier maneovering of the empty trailler (if it twin axled) is to wind down the jockey wheel until you lift the front axle off the ground, you will then be able to push it around much easier as the front tyres will no longer be scrubbing on the ground and fighting the rear wheels.

[madmatt]

Another Tip, Don't just hook the trailer up and storm off to fetch your car, Try and have the trailer ready a day or so before then go off to a large empty car park and have a practice at manouvering with a trailer. Reversing isn't hard just practice required. Remember a fair length car transporter will cut in on tight turns pay particular attention to this, Granny Ogden wont be impressed if your trailer mounts the kerb and drags her Zimmer up the road!!!!!

As said above make sure your trailer is road legal particularly if hiring one check it over well. Towing changes the handling stability of a vehicle so take your time to get used to it. Make sure everything is strapped down well etc. And if you are in anyway unsure ask someone who is an experienced Tower to go with you.

Good Luck

Matt

[simonb]

Another Tip, Don't just hook the trailer up and storm off to fetch your car, Try and have the trailer ready a day or so before then go off to a large empty car park and have a practice at manouvering with a trailer. Reversing isn't hard just practice required. Remember a fair length car transporter will cut in on tight turns pay particular attention to this, Granny Ogden wont be impressed if your trailer mounts the kerb and drags her Zimmer up the road!!!!!

As said above make sure your trailer is road legal particularly if hiring one check it over well. Towing changes the handling stability of a vehicle so take your time to get used to it. Make sure everything is strapped down well etc. And if you are in anyway unsure ask someone who is an experienced Tower to go with you.

Good Luck

Matt

Also forgot to say everyone will cut you up left right and centre, and if you leave a gap at roundabouts and turns for the extra length someone will invariable come up on the inside and squeeze into that gap. Some drivers just have no idea, traffic coming the other way will only see you, they wont look behind to see what you have behind you and that the trailler is invariable wider than the tow vehicle. That's why you have gone wide, over the white line to get past the row of parked cars

Rant over, towing a car and trailler round north London the other wknd was a bit a nightmare due to inconsiderate drivers and i'm used to towing!

[Pyrover]

Some people use old bathroom scales...me thinks a heavy duty set under the jockey wheel before they hitch up. Seriously though if you use a twin axle car transporter they are typically only £35 a day to hire (yellow pages), and they will be guaranteed fit for purpose. They either have pull out ramps or a hydraulic pump to make them "kneel" at the rear. They will also have a winch to hoist the car on board. If you have the vehicle loaded onto the trailler correctely the nose weight will be correct. You will need to set your tow hitch to the lowest possible setting, the trailler hitch should ideally be horizontal or slightly above, never below horizontal.

Tip for easier maneovering of the empty trailler (if it twin axled) is to wind down the jockey wheel until you lift the front axle off the ground, you will then be able to push it around much easier as the front tyres will no longer be scrubbing on the ground and fighting the rear wheels.

Just been looking in the Military section as bobcat has posted a towing question for the 3/4 tonne Sankey trailer, in reply b101uk said:-

As for initial trailer set-up when connected to the towing vehicle, a single axel trailer should on level ground be in a slight nose down position from horizontal >2deg to <5deg, this is so under sever braking it dose not unload the rear axel of the towing vehicle, with twin axel centre line trailers they should be set on level ground between horizontal (0deg) and 1deg nose down, no trailer should ever be nose up!

This seems to contradict what you are saying about never below horizontal.

Surely if you brake with the nose below horizontal the trailer will push down on the hitch forcing the back of the vehicle down, if it were above horizontal the reverse would happen and raise the back of the vehicle?

So which one of you is right?

[madmatt]

Just been looking in the Military section as bobcat has posted a towing question for the 3/4 tonne Sankey trailer, in reply b101uk said:-

As for initial trailer set-up when connected to the towing vehicle, a single axel trailer should on level ground be in a slight nose down position from horizontal >2deg to <5deg, this is so under sever braking it dose not unload the rear axel of the towing vehicle, with twin axel centre line trailers they should be set on level ground between horizontal (0deg) and 1deg nose down, no trailer should ever be nose up!

This seems to contradict what you are saying about never below horizontal.

Surely if you brake with the nose below horizontal the trailer will push down on the hitch forcing the back of the vehicle down, if it were above horizontal the reverse would happen and raise the back of the vehicle?

So which one of you is right?

Don't compare a Sankey to a car trailer, 99% of Sankeys sit nose down slightly. A normal twin axle trailer should sit pretty much level.

[simonb]

Just been looking in the Military section as bobcat has posted a towing question for the 3/4 tonne Sankey trailer, in reply b101uk said:-

As for initial trailer set-up when connected to the towing vehicle, a single axel trailer should on level ground be in a slight nose down position from horizontal >2deg to <5deg, this is so under sever braking it dose not unload the rear axel of the towing vehicle, with twin axel centre line trailers they should be set on level ground between horizontal (0deg) and 1deg nose down, no trailer should ever be nose up!

This seems to contradict what you are saying about never below horizontal.

Surely if you brake with the nose below horizontal the trailer will push down on the hitch forcing the back of the vehicle down, if it were above horizontal the reverse would happen and raise the back of the vehicle?

So which one of you is right?

Twin axle ideally horizontal, may not always be possible due to Landy tow hitch heights. It is imortant however that the hitch weight is correct to ensure that the whole rig remains stable. Try and get the trailler level and tow vehicle suspension slightly depressed when loaded. With a twin axle trailler it should all work itself out. Single axle traillers require more care.

[Mark90]

Especially if it has twin axles - In reply to Matt.

For disco/110/90 always have always found that tow ball on an un-laden vehicle should be about 17" from ground to top of ball, and this has given good ride height with a correctly loaded car trailer. Check though cos it may vary between trailers.

[TJ101]

Tip 247 !!

When reversing, try and do it to the right rear i.e. over your r/h shoulder, a darn sight more easier that the blind l/h side !

[Diff]

As has been said, with twin axle trailers, it is very important that the trailer is as close to level as possible (so that the load is equally spread on all four tyres and suspension). At the same time you need to have a decent nose weight on the trailer coupling. HOWEVER, it is sometimes very difficult to achieve both these things if the vehicle does not have an adjustable height tow hitch. Some 4x4s have a tow hitch very high off the ground. eg a defender 110 with a standard factory hitch is higher than the one on the disco, which may again be higher than one on a car.

Sometimes you just need to move the towball to an alternative set of holes which may be provided in the tow hitch. Sometimes only a dixon bate type slider hitch will get the heights right.

Make sure you get the opportunity to check the trailer/tow vehicle for correct height before you tow because trailers and vehicle hitch heights do vary.

150kg nose weight is high, may be ok for a 110 hard top, but might poduce a very nose high Disco depending on what springs are fitted. Generally speaking the nose weight should be between 50 to 100kg, BUT what works best will be different for different vehicle/trailer combinations. A fairly high nose weight is good for stability, BUT if it is making the back of the tow vehicle sag too much, the front end will be lighter and steering and braking will be compromised, in which case a lower nose weight will produce a safer combination.

This may be useful to you too:

http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/Safe&LegalTowingShort.pdf

Regards,

Diff

[sgnas]

Your insurance may well cover your car for towing it almost certainly will not cover damage to the trailer or load.

[Mark90]

You will usually be covered third paty only for trailer/load, but best check with your insurance company.

[FridgeFreezer]

Oh yeah - after the first mile or so pull over and re-check all your straps, a car bouncing about can put a lot more tension on them than you can and you'll usually find (unless you're very good / very lucky) that they will take a bit of extra tightening.